A Lifetime of Happiness: Movies, TV, and Video Games

The Broken Hearts Club (2000)

June 01, 2022 Steve Bennet-Martin Season 1 Episode 122
A Lifetime of Happiness: Movies, TV, and Video Games
The Broken Hearts Club (2000)
Show Notes Transcript

The Steves kick off pride month with a conversation about the 2000 classic, The Broken Hearts Club, along with what's making them happy in pop culture today!

What's Making Us Happy?

  • Legendary Season 3 (HBO Max)
  • Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 7 (Hulu)

Movie Topics Discussed

  • Names and Numbers behind the movie
  • The movies Gay Dictionary
  • When did you realize you were LGBT+?
  • When did you realize it was okay?
  • Would you donate sperm for a friend to get pregnant?
  • Is the friction between gays and lesbians IRL?
  • Our experience as newbies
  • Getting the same gift multiple times
  • and more!

Thanks for listening to another episode of A Lifetime of Happiness! Let us know what you thought of this episode by emailing us at happylifepod@gmail.com or by engaging with us on social media @happylifepod

Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.

Support the show
Steve:

And, hello, returning happys and new listeners. This is Steve Bennet- Martin,

Stephen:

and this is Stephen Bennet-Martin. And welcome to a lifetime of happiness podcasts,

Steve:

where we take you on our journey through some of the movies, TV shows, and other bits of pop culture that are helping to keep us happy. We'll hopefully bring a smile or two to your face along the way. And today

Stephen:

we're kicking off pride month with the broken hearts club, a romantic comedy about friendship and being gay in the late nineties and early two thousands.

Steve:

You know, all about being gay back then. Yes.

Stephen:

Cause I'm old.

Steve:

But before we get into that, all my love what's been making you happy.

Stephen:

Well it could be about being an icon or a statement. No, it's legendary. Legendary, legendary. It's legendary from HBO. Max just started season three and I absolutely love it from, for anyone who doesn't know. Legendary is a ballroom competition. And when I say that, I do not mean tango and the waltz. I mean the eighties, counter-culture eighties ballroom for the queer black trans community, especially starting in the in New York city. That is still an art form today. And HBO max has legendary as a competition where 10 legendary ballroom houses compete to be the best of the best for the season. And it's so good to have Layo me Deshaun, Wesley, and Jameela back for season three. And the addition of Kiki Palmer is wonderful. And then

Steve:

there's that other one? Yes. And the judges are not pulling any punches this year. No, and

Stephen:

even the main one is meaner than usually.

Steve:

Yes, well, in a nicer judgments I have been watching Buffy season seven. I'm going through my Buffy rewatch and I'm up to the last season down to the last couple of episodes. And I always love how I always start above where you watched me. Like, I'm just going to watch all the good episodes and I'm like, oh shit. They're all great. So then I ended up watching them off.

Stephen:

So the question I'm sure I've asked you before, but do you know actually what number rewatch? This is? I

Steve:

don't know the exact number of rewatch, but it's got to be in the twenties. If not thirties. Really?

Stephen:

Yeah. I was watching all seven seasons 20 to 30

Steve:

times. Well, I did skip season when I started at season two this time. So there's some wiggle room. Yeah. But wow. That's a lot.

Stephen:

It's my favorite show.

Steve:

I can understand.

Stephen:

I mean, I know that I haven't seen. Golden girls in correct order 20 to 30 times. But I know that I've seen every episode 20 to 30 times, thanks to syndication. Yes.

Steve:

And into this movie, this is the first time I've watched the broken hearts club, which I can't believe that I let us be together for

Stephen:

nine years and not have shown you one of my top 10

Steve:

favorite movies. Yeah. Well, when I looked it up on IMDV it described it as an insight into the turbulent lives and loves of a gay click-based based in Los Angeles. That just,

Stephen:

no. So what is, what is it actually?

Steve:

I think

Stephen:

it's finally an honest look of a group of gay men in their twenties, from a gay writer and director who doesn't pigeonhole the cast into the usual tropes for gay men. And it is fun. It is light-hearted when it needs to be it's deep when it needs to be it's romantic. It's funny. It's endearing it's on like an honest look and. Like whenever I watch this, I'm like, yeah, that's what it was like to be gay in

Steve:

my twenties. Yeah. And it was part of your gay cinema initiation weekend, wasn't it? Yeah. So

Stephen:

I had the flu and my friend Dominic Sushio who was out for several years before me had several movies. He, that he let me borrow like but I'm a cheerleader trick this edge of 17. And so while I was laid up in bed and college, I just watched them all. This is what I've been missing.

Steve:

Yeah. We have very different initiations, but, but I'm a cheerleader was part of mine, but so it was like not another game movie. So have very different looks into the lives of gay men. Mine was a little more reality reality as to living in the fantasy. Yeah. But yeah, it was great for me just seeing what it was like in our community back then. I mean, I was a young child at the time. So

Stephen:

I know you were

Steve:

14. I know I was just starting being gay. So I didn't know what, like living life, like I could, I could tell what it was like growing up in high school, but high school and college and post-college are very different life stages. Very much. So with the movie, it was distributed by Sony pictures, classic on October 20th, 2000 with a budget of 1 million and a box office of 2 million. So it doubled it. Yeah. And

Stephen:

for a movie like this of that time, Bravo to

Steve:

them. Yeah. And the film was written and directed by Greg Berlanti who went on not only to direct love Simon an episode we'll be covering later, later this month, but also the he's the executive producer for the entire CWS DC verse. Yep. And I

Stephen:

remember finding him again with the ABC drama brothers and sisters with Calista Flockhart. And I was like, oh, I love the show. And it's by the guy that did one of my favorite movies. And then to see that now he made the CW what it was for the last

Steve:

decade. That's pretty impressive. Yeah. And the movie also stars a surprisingly successful ensemble cast. Hugely. That includes John Mahoney is. Timothy Oliphant as Dennis Dean Cain is Cole. Zach Braff has Bingy Matt McGrath as Howie Ben Webber as Patrick and Billy Porter as Taylor. And not to mention

Stephen:

Jennifer Coolidge as Betty,

Steve:

a very young Betty. Yeah, a very young

Stephen:

Jennifer Coolidge, which actually not really because it was right after this, that she did legally blonde,

Steve:

which is just two very different looks for her. I guess she had, even though she was a hairstylist in both. Yes. Now all a fan is best known today for a starring roles and justified and Santa Clarita diet while Cain was Clark Kent in Lois and Clark, the new adventures of Superman before

Stephen:

he went on to be a horrible person. Oh no. Yeah. The gay community does not care for CA Dean Cain anymore.

Steve:

All right. Well, well BRAF, meanwhile is still pretty nice. Yep. He went on to start in scratch.

Stephen:

Zach Braff is fantastic. And while he's great in screen, This is such a departure for him. This is my favorite. Zach Braff, our role Jack Mahoney, who plea, I'm sorry, not Jack Mahoney. John Mahoney who plays Jack in this is best known as being Frazier's dad on the long running sitcom Frazier. Oh,

Steve:

well, okay. And while I'm the graphs has known for at the time for his role as Lonnie and boys, don't cry,

Stephen:

Weber, starred, and twister is Stan late. Oh my gosh. We need to do a whole month of disaster

Steve:

movies. Oh no. What a disaster that would be.

Stephen:

Oh yes. Billy Porter of course is pray. Tell and pose. And Tony award-winning for kinky

Steve:

boots. Yeah. Yes. And we discussed gender for cool. It's more in depth when we covered legally blind with her role as Paula. Yeah.

Stephen:

And I mean, this is, it's a hell of a cast for an independent. With many straight actors playing gay before it was chic to play gay. So Bravo to a lot of them, especially Timothy Olyphant who went on to be the most masculine of parts

Steve:

in justified. Yes. And the movie starts off with the definition of meanwhile not the definition, you'd think no, but a red alert amongst friends signaling them to an immediate note of a passing stranger. So

Stephen:

that if you were in a conversation, you could be like, yeah. And so we were watching Buffy last night and meanwhile, you know, Willow and Buffy and the, whenever you said, meanwhile, like that, that's for everyone in the group to subtly look at the attractive person that just walked by, because meanwhile is something you say in conversation and that person, most likely wouldn't tell you, we're talking about them.

Steve:

So a good bad example of that. I'm guessing as if a hot guy walked by while we were talking about. Fuck me. Yeah. That's a little less subtle. It is. Yeah. So did you have a subtle code like that?

Stephen:

No. Before this movie came out, we would say, don't look now. Yeah. And they always love and friend of the show and one of my best friends, Ronnie, when I was being like,

Steve:

wow, Hawes and saying it

Stephen:

that loud and crane, his neck around them. We're like, Ronnie, whenever we say, don't look, now it's a chance to be subtle. Whenever buddy knows that Rodney is about as subtle as a train wreck.

Steve:

Yes, exactly. So

Stephen:

the movie starts after that introduction of a meanwhile, we have four friends at a coffee shop and they're playing a game of who can be straight the longest where Bingy loses because he uses the phrase. Amen girlfriend, while Holly points out that losing a game like this is nothing to be. I feel bad about, even though he was the one that said, yo, there's no snatch there on Tuesday nights. Was it the word snatch that bothers you? Yes,

Steve:

I prefer unless it's followed by game and it's on drag race, so thank you. But yeah, I mean, I remember a times like playing straight, but never like playing a game like that with my gay friends.

Stephen:

Did I ever tell you of the time in college, where to mess with our friend, Amber? Ronnie pretended to be straight for two weeks, not ever once breaking character and refused to be called Ronnie. He was wrong. And maybe

Steve:

I can imagine that's just such a departure for a run.

Stephen:

Oh, it was so funny. Oh God, that was a

Steve:

good time. Yes. I can imagine what Ronnie would be like as Ron. I mean, there's pictures in the definition of born this way.

Stephen:

I mean, even the way he would hold his body differently. And like Ronnie has amazing posture and it immediately slumped into late nineties surfer boy posture type of thing. And the, he lowered his voice about an octave and a half.

Steve:

Yeah. And then after the coffee shop, they give Dennis a book love here I am for his birthday to help him manifest a boyfriend. Since he's the only one who doesn't complain about being single, they then they exchanged their first meanwhile at a handsome guy in a bike passing by before Dennis takes a picture of them voicing over. A lot of people ask me when I first knew I was gay fact is, I don't know. But what I do remember, what I do recall is when I first realized it was okay, it was when I met these guys, my friends,

Stephen:

and that is such a, such a true statement because whenever and I knew it was slightly different for us. Like I had gay feelings for a very long time, but growing up in the Bible belt and in a small community, it was one of those things of you just, you tamp it down and you ignore it and, you know, you'll get married and you can just, you know, be quote unquote, normal. That's just what you were meant to do. And it can feel really lonely because you're thinking I'm the only one that has feelings like this. And then you, and so just like Dennis says, I don't know when I knew I was gay. But I do know the first time it was okay. Was thanks to Ronnie and Dominic Cassuto in college.

Steve:

Awesome. Similarly for me, I mean, I always like knew I was gay. I don't know at time. I mean, I, it could have been when I had my like crazy crush on my friend Greg's older brother, or it could have been just some of like the it's weird when you were like eight or nine saying like erotic dreams. But like, I definitely had like sexy time dreams of like men with their shirts off and stuff like that. Even from a very young age.

Stephen:

Oh, I remember my first one of those I'm at five and even in the dream one of the women in the dream made me feel bad about it. So like, I even had the feeling of it and then somebody telling me it was wrong.

Steve:

Oh no, that's not good. No, but yeah, I did have a similar experience in college. I would say. Sophomore or junior year. I think it was when I was living with like, my roommate was gay and we were sharing like, cause at that time they scram as many people as they can into a room. So it was a four person room and all four of us were gay. And I just remember just being like, wow, like gay people can like live together and it's not an orgy, like most of the time. And it's like pretty cool. And like, I felt okay. Like I was no longer having to explain myself left and right. Or I wasn't the token in a group. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen:

It, the movie then goes to how he and Patrick talking about the ability to pass a straight while they're in bed, bath and beyond. And there are some parts of this that didn't age. Exactly. Well, but I love when Patrick is, Green's this older couple by and they're like so ma'am what do you say Mo or not. And the woman goes, I don't know, honey, what do you think? And she's like, can you fold your arms? Like cross your arms? And nobody does no old lady goes, oh yeah, big Nellie. Holly was like, Patrick could care less, whether you've passed this or not how he was so obsessed with being able to pass a straight, which back then that was a big deal because you didn't want to be othered. Like in your mind, you didn't want other people to immediately assume. And that's definitely something as you're growing and becoming yourself that you finally are like, oh, screw it. I don't care.

Steve:

Yeah. Meanwhile, we watched Cole break it off with a guy using an audition

Stephen:

monologue that he wrote on

Steve:

his hand. Yes. After a couple of dates, only wanting something casual. He did this breakup at the restaurant work set that broke. The Jack of broken hearts and then gets lectured on how tacky it was by his coworker, Taylor and owner Jack.

Stephen:

So one, the interesting thing that I picked up from the scene was that Kohl's new X says a lot of bad things about him, which Cole is totally fine with. But the only thing that bothers him is when the ex calls him bottom boy, which shows you how much there was a stigma 20 years ago about being a feminine gay man. And it's different now like ish, ish, but nowadays it's definitely not a, oh, you're a bottom type of thing where back then that was, oh, everyone's going to pretend to be a top. What's that bottom and a top, babe. We can discuss that at another time. Whenever I feel you've grown enough to

Steve:

learn. Okay. Now and also T Taylor is a serial monogamous at the time. And when lecturing people about love starts everything with, as a person in a long-term relation. Which he says speaks to his authority on the matters of the heart. Is that what you're like? Now? Whenever anyone at work is like talking about issues, you're like, well, as a person in a long-term happy relationship, let me impart my wisdom on, you

Stephen:

know, oh, I just say, bless your heart. Now, Jack then tries to convince all the guys to bring back the broken heart softball team, which they're like no softball team this year, no softball team this year because they lost every game they've ever played as the

Steve:

broken hearts. Yeah. Now I didn't have this sort of like older wise gay man to try and like teach me or get me comfortable. I mean, did you have anyone like that besides Ronnie?

Stephen:

Oh, that was good. No, the only older gay men that I knew. During my early twenties all wanted to sleep with gay men in their twenties. So there wasn't that one that just wanted the best for you. It was the ones that were like, yeah. And

Steve:

yeah, that must've been nice though for this script to have it.

Stephen:

Oh. And I think that it's definitely necessary because back then, especially a lot of them didn't have great relationships with their parents when they were coming out. So this was the surrogate parental figure for them.

Steve:

Yes. Now next up, we see how the stereotype of gay men and lesbians not getting along existed back then because Patrick picks up his sister and for a party in his friction, friction with her girlfriend,

Stephen:

Leslie. And they just hate each other and they're not even subtle about it. And you know, there is the whole thing where, oh, gay men and lesbians can't get along, which I don't believe it's true. But when you were in your teens and twenties, did you have lesbian friends?

Steve:

I did vicariously through Laura and Stephanie and whoever Stephanie's girlfriend was at the time. She kind of flip-flop between two married, one of them, but the other one was exceptionally evil at the time, I guess, you know, in hindsight, she's probably grown into a nice woman, but like at the time had a lot of growing up to do and was not very nice. And so when we were with the one that she didn't end up with, I could see that whole like damn lesbians, but it was more just like, damn this one person in particular who was giving lesbians a bad name. Stephanie was always pretty

Stephen:

cool. You know, it wasn't honestly until Magill and JC and Cincinnati built. The below zero lounge, which really became a place for the entire LGBTQ community to find someplace together. Because before then, it definitely felt segregated with lesbian bars and gay bars. And that one was like the community bar. So definitely in my twenties, not as many lesbians. And I'm glad that it grew to not be that way. Yes.

Steve:

Now Howie and his ex-boyfriend and also current friends with benefits Marshall the, to fight in the car on the way to a party because Marshall wants more and how he doesn't,

Stephen:

and Marshall's pot-smoking since Howie and even more of a tailspin. And I just watched this now and I'm like how we really could use some anti-anxiety medication. Which back in those days, wasn't because even 20 years, I mean, even five years ago, you're not really talking about mental health as much. So 20 years ago, nobody was talking about it.

Steve:

So yeah, they have used a joint or a prescription. Now we then get another definition newbie recently out gay person, especially any sweet, inexperienced, young gay man destined for heartbreak.

Stephen:

And that takes us to the party for Dennis's birthday in Dennis's house, which is fantastic. And my only thought is, how did you afford this in west Hollywood, in your early to mid twenties? Like where did this money come from?

Steve:

Because that's a great house. It is a great house. And I don't think that that's actually part of the plot.

Stephen:

I don't

Steve:

either.

Stephen:

It's just fantasy. Yeah. So Cole moves in on Benji's co-worker from structure. And for those of you who are younger Express for men used to be called structure. Why? I don't know. Okay. I think that the name where it was two differential in this way, they could just buy bigger stores and have express and then divide the store into two. Gotcha. So Cole is hitting on Benji's coworker, Kevin, while Jack is trying to recruit new players for the softball team and Benji and Dennis reminisce about what it was like for them. When they came out as newbies, where everyone was a possibility,

Steve:

is that what being a newbie was like for you? Oh

Stephen:

yeah. Like, and it was absolutely because all of a sudden you have all these people that you know nothing about and that they all have this mystique about them. And it's only after you're with there for a while. You're like, oh, he's trouble. Yes. You want to stay away from that one or, you know, he's nice enough and blah, blah, blah. What do you remember? The whole newbie thing.

Steve:

Yeah. And it was also, I'm sure we'll talk about it more later. But like when my first club experience was really, when I felt like I need to be in, I felt that sense of possibility. You know, up until that time, it was mostly online. So, you know, it's, you know, it doesn't feel as real when it's just a, you know, you see that there's like 200 or 300 profiles on manhunt. It's very different to see two or 300 gay people at a bar or club like dancing and having fun. And you're like, they're real. They exist outside the confines of the

Stephen:

internet. And that's a definite difference between us because our seven year age difference, we didn't have the whole online thing back in the 19 98, 99,

Steve:

not even like AOL chat rooms where you were like

Stephen:

ASL, it was so creepy back then.

Steve:

So you might've been talking to me when I was like 13 or 14. Yeah.

Stephen:

Oh, now the guys are annoyed with Cole because he read one book about Zen lessons and he uses that to pick up guys. So they see him as something more than, you know, the ultimate. Meanwhile, and I love that, how he says dumb, gorgeous people should not be able to use literature. We can be competing in the pickup pool. It's like bald people wearing hats. It's deceiving.

Steve:

Yes. And the guys then discussed their first television crushed with answers, ranging from John boy Walton to Aqua man. Do

Stephen:

you know your first celebrity crush?

Steve:

It's hard to tell I'm sure that there were some, like, when I was like younger that like, I was just infatuated with probably especially like cartoon characters, so like Disney princess. But I remember like my first one where I was like cutting out pictures from magazines and like making collages was probably James Marsters spike from Buffy and

Stephen:

mine was Luke Perry as Dylan from 900 to one. Yes.

Steve:

Now, Dennis gets another copy of love. Here I am from Taylor, which ends up being

Stephen:

his third copy.

Steve:

And at that point, maybe the universe is sending you a message. Yeah. Dennis then reunites with J crew guy, someone he met at new years and they make out until Taylor gets a call from his long-term boyfriend. Paul breaking up with him over the phone and the friends all rushed to a side, which is touching. Yeah. In the short time, Dennis was making out call, slept with Kevin. Of course he did what the quickie.

Stephen:

Now did you know, Dennis is getting three copies of the same thing for his birthday. Did you ever get multiple copies of something from different people for birthday or Christmas?

Steve:

All of college. All anyone I swear got me was will. And grace DVDs, the season

Stephen:

I'm sure was.

Steve:

Meaning? Well, it was meaning well, but everyone was like, you're gay. The one thing I know about gay people is will, and grace, let me get you this newest season that came out, which is how I ended up with like seasons one through four. But I definitely also, at some point, like had like three copies of season one, two copies of season two, five copies of season three. And so I always kept like the one whoever gave it to me first. But there were like, after that, I was just like gifting it out to straight people as education re gifting it

Stephen:

now for me it was we've talked about my love and obsession with Moulin Rouge. So a lot of people got me move on Rouge on DVD, which at least at that point it was something that I had spoken a lot about. So I give them credit for that. But I had multiple copies of Moulin Rouge. Yes.

Steve:

Now Taylor is spiraling over the breakup and needs the music of a gay diva to help. It needs to be bet, Judy or Barbara when offered saline, he says, inhale, Patrick becomes a little too honest and harsh and puts his own insecurities on the issue. Upsetting Taylor, even more and making himself upset. Taylor is only dumped but kicked out of his home. So Dennis invites him to stay with him in Cole,

Stephen:

which is what a good friend would do. And it reminds me of so Ronnie and Monica were moving into the apartment right underneath mine, in the school house. And his wasn't going to be ready until June 1st. I think he could take ownership of it. And so he had to be out of the dorms on May 4th, but couldn't be into. And apartment until June 1st. So he had like 20 some days he had to be somewhere. So he stayed on my couch and that was a very interesting experience

Steve:

through the whole thing. Yes. Now how he then invites Marshall to come home with him. But at first he declined saying he doesn't want to be, as Rice-A-Roni now you love your game shows. Do you want to share what the Rice-A-Roni was?

Stephen:

And everyone today is going to go home with Rice-A-Roni the San Francisco treat. It is the ultimate seventies constellation prize that everyone knew that they were gonna go home with. And Marshall ends up giving in when, how he goes speechless and how we did that, you know, taking off his glasses and rubbing his eyes because he knew that Marshall was weak for him when he did that. So it's not really great of how. Doing this because he's playing on Marshall's feelings, he knows that Marshall wants more out of the relationship and how we at this point, whatever he wants, he just didn't want to be alone that night. And what's interesting about this is that, that how we, Marshall storyline is supposedly semi-autobiographical for our relationship that Greg Berlanti had. And as you're watching it, it honestly seems like the most authentic and real storyline in the whole thing. So I totally

Steve:

buy that. Yeah. I mean, did you have any relationships like this where like after the breakup, you couldn't just let go of one another? No,

Stephen:

there were definitely times where you know, we broke up and. I didn't learn how to end relationships. Well, until later for awhile there, things didn't end on the best of notes. Now, there were times later on where there would be

Steve:

someone and there was a

Stephen:

little bit of something between us, but we never took that step. But we did always keep coming back to each other. So not to the same extent, but I do recognize this

Steve:

story for sure. Yeah. Meanwhile Patrick, Lamanda how hard it is to find guys when talking to his sister saying LA is a bunch of tens looking for Eleven's and then on a good night. And if the other guy is drunk enough, he's a six. Then his sister asked Peter to donate a sperm to get her girlfriend pregnant, which definitely he was not expecting no.

Stephen:

And. You know, for someone that young and with, especially back then where things aren't as normal about that type of thing as they are now, would you ever donate your sperm to a female that wanted to have a child?

Steve:

I would, but so far guys are the only ones who want my sperm. What about you?

Stephen:

That was funny. No, I totally would. But it would be one of those things where, you know, you, you either see the person wants to be heavily involved or the person doesn't want to be involved at all. I

Steve:

would just be like, give me some porn. I'll do my business in a cup. And then like I'm in

Stephen:

involved with the

Steve:

child. I know, I know. I was just saying, and then I'd give them. And like, not think about it again, like I wouldn't want to be involved.

Stephen:

Yeah. I don't think I'd want the child to know that I was there

Steve:

until they were like all enough for whatever 18. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't want to be involved with racing a kid Remy's enough for

Stephen:

us,

Steve:

but he's such a good boy. He is now, then this is about to hook up a J crew guy who we find out his name, Ted, because I prefer J crew guy. Yes. But he gets cold feet because he's tired of random sex and want something more, someone he'll still be interested in the morning.

Stephen:

Did you ever come to this realization?

Steve:

I would say it was before I met you, like right before, if you remember, like, I'm sure bill, I'm sure you remember it, but like the first couple, like conversations of us were like meeting. Like, this is why you don't want to date me because I'm not ready and I'm taking time for myself and all of that. So it was only like that time I realized really that I wanted something more than just something casual and I wanted to make sure I did it right, because it didn't do it really right before you. And I

Stephen:

definitely see that. I think I came to that realization several times. It was an Evan flow. Interesting fact about the movie Berlanti was allergic to something in the room used as Dennis's bedroom and direct many of the scenes from outside, which is kind of funny in the scene whenever Dennis is trying to stall or get himself in the mood he's like, you want to listen to some music and the guy's like, sure. And he goes, I have of the carpenters and Ted was like, pick something else. And I think that was the moment where Dennis was like, okay, we're done because for Dennis Karen Carpenter has the best voice, which I think is definitely a Berlanti thing. Because even though they were, some of them recover, some stuff. Most, every song in the movie was a carpenter song. Oh, well, there you go. And which I approve of because the carpenters have

Steve:

fantastic music. Yes. Now, after kicking out Ted Dennis finds Kevin eating the birthday cake Dennis made for himself that he hasn't gotten to eat yet. How sad was it that he had to make his own birthday cake? Have you ever had to do that or did you always have mom and dad make your cake?

Stephen:

No. I've never had to make my own cake because it was either something made from, by mom and dad or I'm just like Publix has

Steve:

a really good

Stephen:

bakery. Kroger had a fantastic bakery. So I was okay with a Kroger

Steve:

birthday cake too. Now Kevin tells him that everyone knows that birthday wishes are the only ones with real validity and wines back the clock on the wall so that it's before midnight and Dennis can make a wish. And then they bond over Dennis's photography. It's almost sweet and you can definitely send some chemistry there, but then Dennis shares that Benji was crushing on Kevin, who goes on the defensive since he's not just a newbie, he's not out to anyone yet. Oh.

Stephen:

And, and you want, you want to look at Kevin and be like, stop don't you realize that Dennis is going to be a safe space for you. And, but at that point, he's not even ready to have that conversation yet. And it's really sweet. The conversation, like maybe I'm gay, maybe I'm not, maybe it's no one's business and it's, I did not have that exact same thing, but it definitely rings true as conversations people have.

Steve:

Oh yeah. And I bet you agree. Birthday candle wishes are the best wishes

Stephen:

or my favorite.

Steve:

Yes. We then go off to gay men's therapy time with their hairstylist. Is that what therapy is for you, babe?

Stephen:

I know, I don't know. I, I always just talk to everybody about everything. So except for the things that really matter. So I guess not.

Steve:

Yes, well, here are the montage of our guys are venting to their Silas, Betty. They all go to the same person, Jennifer Coolidge first bitching about the party and then all of them collectively, but separately about their jealousy over Cole. Now, did you ever have a friend like Cole, like the ultimate, meanwhile, who has no soul?

Stephen:

Not friend because I will not be friends with people that don't have, that would act like that. But I knew several people that I was like, oh my God, he's incredibly attractive, but he is just not a good

Steve:

person.

Yeah.

Steve:

I never had one like that in my friend group because I like my friends to have souls. Yes. But I definitely have encountered my fair share of. Through my experiences. Yeah. Now Taylor takes it upon himself to redecorate Dennis's home, who isn't happy about it. Now that it looks like something out of the lion king Cole then asked Dennis to help him with a new headshot. And they talked to each other about their inability to hold on to a guy for a long Cole

Stephen:

wants to get apart in the new KIPP Rogers film. And you can definitely tell that KIPP Rogers is loosely based on Tom cruise and everyone that hears the name, Kip Rogers say, oh, I heard KIPP Rogers is gay. And Dennis quickly always says, he's not gay. He's married. And Taylor of course says,

Steve:

that's right up there

Stephen:

with, he's not gay.

Steve:

He's in a fraternity. Yes. Now we got another definition guy, traditionally, a man or a fellow, but also a modifier

Stephen:

used among gay friends to characterize and title a person by his most obvious attribute. For example, J crew guy. Did you ever. Nickname or code any of the people you're friends dated or you dated?

Steve:

The guys I dated for sure. It just helped Laura keep them straight for awhile. And it was you know, even though we would see each other three or four times a week, sometimes there was a different boyfriend between the first conversation, the last. So like, I would always try and use their names. Like I try and say John, but when she's like who or which one, I'd be just like twin guy or like, you know, this guy or that guy, but like, I would always use something guy to try and like, make it easier for people to track when it was a revolving door of men. Yeah.

Stephen:

And I remember I had a friend that was dating someone and we just referred to him as wonky. I guy. Yes. And you know, that wasn't the nicest thing, but it definitely helped people remember who we were talking about.

Steve:

Yeah. Now Howie and Benji are playing outfield. The same way that I did back in grade school, just laying in the grass, picking up flowers at the first softball game of the season against a firefighter team, straight out of a calender. Yep. The guys are debating on the rules of percentages. That one out of every 10 guys is gay. So the group of firefighters one must be gay and they're trying to figure out who it is.

Stephen:

Yeah. And Cole gets done making out with Kevin, who he invited to the game and here's this debate and he's like, oh, it's easily. It's the catcher. And they're like the, the biggest, meanwhile on their team bats for our team, you're saying, and they make a bet. If, if I get his number, you know, you guys buy drinks. And so he goes up there and he starts talking to the kids. And he says, you know, what would it take for you to give me my number or give me your number? What would it, what would it take for you to hit a home run? And Cole hits the home run and goes print neatly. And unfortunately, even though he got a home run, they still lost.

Steve:

Yes, but he got the guy's number and he breaks it off with Kevin. So that he can go sleep with the catcher. It's not kind to Kevin. Now, obviously, then this runs over to consult Kevin and a park how he says he's doing it because he just wants to sleep with Kevin and they spent some time chatting on the swings. And it's funny when Timothy Olyphant and inter Keegan were filming this scene on the park swings, a group of teenage girls noticed Andrew and waited until the scene was over to ask for his autograph after his role in 10 things. I hate about you when Timothy offered his autograph, the girls to. They don't know him.

Stephen:

Yeah. And nowadays you'd be like, oh, damn, I missed out on that. Now this whole conversation, Kevin is overwhelmed with being newly gay. We found out he also loves the carpenters, which Dennis says is his first obviously gay trait. And they ended up at a photography exhibit where Dennis tells his stories of coming out his regrets about his father, not knowing who he was. And I was mother didn't take it well in the beginning, but now she refers to the LGBTQ community as if they were neighbors from down the street. I see the gays had a parade. Did you go? And Kevin asked Dennis, why he is friends of those guys. Is it just because they're all gay? And he says, you know, it may have been how it started, but that's not why we're still friends back in those days. Did you have a group of people that you became friends with just because you were all gay and that was something.

Steve:

It was something for enough time. I would say like the four of us when we were living together in college, my junior year, like we're friends, but it wasn't the type of friendship that lasted after we all moved into different dorm rooms or graduated or went our separate ways. So it was more because we were gay than anything else. But that's okay. Yeah. I'll know that you still talk with Ronnie cause he's on our podcast all the time. So early that it stuck

Stephen:

well and Ronnie and dominant Cappuccio I was friends with before I came out. My friend, Deanna Bolinger knew Dominic Cassuto and brought him into the group and Dominic brought Ronnie. And what's funny is that while we all knew Dom Dominic more, Ronnie's the one that

Steve:

stuck around and was like, I like them. I'm not leaving. Now Patrick declines giving up his sperm and they share that it was an attempt to help him grow up and take some responsibility for his life and get his shit together.

Stephen:

And Anne says, when you came out, you said it was so that you wouldn't be miserable and I have never seen you more miserable. And I think this miserable throughout the movie he is, and I think that's one of those things that, yes, he finally did acknowledge that he was gay and he came out. But just doing that as we both know of doing your shadow work and growing and things, acknowledging one aspect, isn't actually coming to terms with who you are, your issues and everything like that. Like that was a. He has more to do.

Steve:

Yes. Now at brunch, Howie elements about not having gay representation worth looking up to in film, which is ironic since that's what this film did for you. Yup. And

Stephen:

he's, there is not a single film in the cinema cannon that paints a picture of gay men that we would aspire to be. You know, there's no bull suffering aids victims, the friends of noble suffering aids victims, addict, street, hustlers, and now the newest, the stylish confidant of love Lorne women for once. I'd like to see a gay character who was not sick, not been late in about three months and is behind on a student loans. And the guy say, so that's someone you'd aspire to be. And he says, well, at least we wouldn't have to compare ourselves to steel Magnolias. And the guys were immediately like, oh, you are so Sally field right now.

Steve:

But I mean, I agree. I mean, even years after this movie with like this movie being kind of the unicorn yeah. Of the bunch. Those are roles and tropes that we still play a lot of times until the, like, even today, like, especially the, the, the romcom where we're like the gay best friend or the gay coworker. I mean, please

Stephen:

see my best friend's wedding with Julia Roberts. Like it's definitely there. And it's one of those things. It happens with black cinema that Hollywood isn't going to make the films. If they don't think that there is a market for it and money to be made from it. And just how the black community is having to show up with their wallets to say, you make, the movies will show up. The gay community has to do the same thing. If we want quality game movies that aren't so crushing, because they're about death. Like we're all really tired

Steve:

of that. Yes. And so you should all go see bros when it comes out later this year, because it looks really awesome. And

Stephen:

there's one coming on Hulu called fire island that has the gay Asian guy from Saturday night live and Margaret Cho. And it looks really endearing and authentic. So, you know, these are the types of things that we were asking for. So if we want to see more of it, you have to watch it.

Steve:

Yes. Now how he then catches Marshall out on a date, which Marshall totally has the right to be doing since how it keeps them at arms length, but how he is completely thrown.

Stephen:

Yeah. And after Patrick says that he enjoys his friend group because he can be beautiful by association. And Jack says, everyone can't be straight. Everyone can't be beautiful. Everyone can't be the same. Patrick. Some people are just gay, an average. We're the strongest, I think. And I think that that is that's Patrick's biggest lesson is he has to come to terms with who he is without comparing himself to the people around him. Because once you figure out your own strengths, anybody else's things you're happy for what they have, but that doesn't affect who you are. And he's

not.

Steve:

That was the only thing that I wish. And I'm sure it was of the time, especially, but, you know, I was hoping that Jack would give him some more advice than just, well, you're just average be fine with it. Like it should have been like you're special in your own way. You just haven't figured it out yet.

Stephen:

No, but I think he did because he saying you and I are alike. Jack knows that Patrick and all the guys look up to him so much. And if he, if Jack is saying you and me, we're the same. And we're the strongest that saying, you know, Cole might be more beautiful. Dennis might be more talented. You're the strongest of the group. That's that something for him to think about? And it worked,

Steve:

yes. Now Cole gets a part in the new Kip Rogers movie that sends them off for a couple of weeks for in a, in a couple of weeks for a month, which of

course

Steve:

prompts someone to say, I heard Kip Rogers is gay, then it's immediately defense. He's not gay. He's married. Yes. Then Patrick decides to go back to a sister and girlfriend to change his mind about donating a sperm while how he confronts Marshall about moving on. Marshall says his new guy at least shows him affection outside of the bedroom and that how he wouldn't even be there if Brian were in better looking than him

Stephen:

and how it just goes. And Marshall's like, thank you for at least not denying it. Yeah.

Steve:

Then we get another definition. Jim bunnies, a slang term used to describe a faction of gay men who eat, sleep and breathe the gym. AK, not our people, not our people at all.

Stephen:

And at the gym. How are events about Marshall Dennis denies his interest in Kevin and Benji gets Idaho guy's

Steve:

number. Okay. Christopher Kane who was of on angel as Lindsey McDonald.

Stephen:

It was he evil lawyer

Steve:

from the first three seasons? Yeah. What well from it heart, well, from on

Stephen:

heart, I was like, I, I know the name. If you say it out loud, I don't know the name. And they're like, why, why do you guys call him Idaho guy?

Steve:

He's like, it's not one of our best. Yes.

Stephen:

And I love that because there are definitely those where you're just like, You come up with something near like, you know, he just seems like he'd watch Sesame street.

Steve:

Yes. Now call sets off for filming while Taylor watches, Joan Crawford films on repeat in a very unhealthy manner. Meanwhile, how he has to buy porn for Patrick to get going to donate his sperm. Because back then sperm banks only had straight porn in the room,

Stephen:

which again, shows you how the world has changed in 20 years. Now, time passes, as Cole goes on set, Kevin starts working at the restaurant, making friends Howie goes on several horrible,

Steve:

horrible

Stephen:

dates. And it made me remember how Brady and I used to have a thing where we would tell the other person, obviously, where we're going on a date, what time we were supposed to like what time the reservation was. And 25 minutes into the date, we would call the other person. If you silenced your phone, that meant that the date was going well, if not, the other person would pick up and we would be having car trouble, flat tire, can you please come get me? And then you could get out of the date. So Howie needed one of his

Steve:

friends to do

Stephen:

that. Yes. The lesbians find out that they're pregnant and the guys go to a gay club for Kevin's first time. And they suspect that Benji has been doing lots and lots of the drugs.

Steve:

Yes. And like I mentioned, my first experience at a gay club, I remember like, technically my very first one was like going to a gay bar. 'cause I'm like, I've always been old with my sleepy time. I was like, I'll go at six o'clock and see who's there. The answer was no one other than the drunks. So I guess I was in the right place at the time. I just didn't know it yet. And I left, but I remember that like the first time where it was like full dance floor packed, like I didn't even have the anxiety I normally get in big crowds just because I was just so amazed that so many gay people could be all together and having what seemed like a good time.

Stephen:

My first was on college at the club vice-versa with Romany, Rami and Dominic. Two of my favorites. One was at a dance club in Cincinnati where we'd I was working at Rondo's the restaurant and Jodi and Elaine had come with Brady and I, and I feel like it was one of the girls' birthdays or something, or one of our birthdays. We saw a drag show and Jody kept saying, that's a good

Steve:

dancer.

Stephen:

She was, he plastered by that point. And you know how, when you're in a group and you're dancing, you're all dancing in a circle. Yeah. So Jody

Steve:

kept dancing backwards and dancing into other groups of people wouldn't like joining them and we'd have to be like

Stephen:

Joey come back. But my favorite times were probably below zero doing co-care non-kosher Spain karaoke with Sherry McKinley, we're close. And then the drag shows upstairs with Brady and penetration. So, you know, it was a good time. Yes.

Steve:

Then the game men recuperate in the next chapter, as the boys prepare for a 4th of July party, while we see Kip and Cole. Confirming all the guys suspicions up to this point that KIPP was gay. Cole gets a taste of his own medicine. His kit blows him off for the last day of shooting, referring to him as the pretty boy extra, which call does not take kindly.

Stephen:

No, he was more upset about that than he was about being

Steve:

called bottom boy. Yeah. Yes. And he gets told like, oh, well, I'll be out in your area in a couple of weeks. We'll meet up then at

Stephen:

someplace

Steve:

discreet.

Stephen:

And then Kevin shares that he came out to his parents. Mom mentioned that she made key lime pie. I said, great. I love key lime pie. And I'm gay. I bet she wishes. She had made apple pie and in the end it went well and it was thanks to any thanks, Dennis. And they kiss and we see that the next morning that they've hooked up and Dennis freaks out and like has immediate regret and rushes them off to the softball game where they're facing off. And finally. Against a team of senior citizens with one of them using

Steve:

a Walker, that's what it takes. And funny enough,

Stephen:

Taylor, their worst player is the one

Steve:

that

Stephen:

wins it for them with the last at-bat. And unfortunately, as they celebrate their victory, Jack has a heart attack

Steve:

and dies, which I totally called it. The star of the movie guy, a father type mentor to a group of friends in the third act. It's going to start off

Stephen:

with him dying. You were right. And at the funeral, everyone is wearing Hawaiian shirts because Jack loved a few things in life, Hawaiian shirts, baseball, Shakespeare, and purple guy, how he gives Marshall and honest compliment just because showing growth on how he's part. And then Marshall shares with Holly that he stopped smoking pot. Not because he's not with Howie anymore, just because he thought it was time, Benji arrived, strung out and they ask him if he's been using. And Patrick says that he's just a muscle boys play thing for a few weeks, that hardly constitutes a relationship and Benji lashes out and says, that's more

Steve:

than you've ever had you ugly fuck, which has harsh, real harsh way.

Stephen:

Harsh tie. Yes. And Kevin wants clarification from Dennis and Dennis shuts that down. And, you know, Kevin deserves this clarification, especially the way Dennis has been acting the past few days, but it's also the wrong time. And so Dennis, because he can't deal with all the emotions of Jack dying and everything else all at the same time says, you know, all we did was hook up. It's no big deal. Yes.

Steve:

Cole is then stood up by KIPP, as we imagined and meets up for the guys for drinks, picking things back up with Kevin almost immediately. We then see Benji getting high at a club with Idaho guy and his friends and Dennis developing photos of his friends while crying over his loss and his.

Stephen:

And Dennis has come later that night and the group rushed to the hospital after Benji overdosed and all the friends are there. But funny enough, Idaho guy and his new group of druggie club friends are nowhere to be seen.

Steve:

Yes. Cole shows up with Dennis or with Kevin, which sets off Dennis, did you two come together?

Stephen:

I think that's cute.

Steve:

Yes. Kevin goes after Dennis to apologize, because then it says the one he truly cares about and admits he slept with call to get back at him.

Stephen:

And Dennis tells him that he did the right thing and he says, I've been crazy about you since he lit the damn candle. You were the wish, but Dennis, isn't ready for it. And Kevin needs some time to grow into who we really is. And Dennis wants to move on, move to Europe, find his photographer's eye and find himself. And Kevin heartbreakingly says, and this kills me still watching it because I remember being Kevin in this situation before can't you move on with someone else there. And Dennis and Kevin talk about it and, you know, and he says, I can't, if the other person has a lot of growing to do and they get to a point where, you know, they're going to be friends, but oh,

Steve:

that just breaks me. Yeah. Yes. And the hospital where all of this is taking place was actually an abandoned hospital. So the crew had to clean it up and pretty it up before they could film it. It's interesting. Better than shutting down a real hospital for a day, I guess.

Stephen:

Yeah. Now this next scene is one that gets me every time, how he goes to Marshall's and kisses him in front of the guy he's seeing who punches Howie Marshall sends the guy inside and how he says, you told me once you were waiting for me to wake up, you didn't wait long enough. I've never been more awake than I am right now. And I admit it. I fucked up no matter who you were, there would have always been something wrong with you and someone better out. And I wished that I could change that. I wish that I could take back all the times. I didn't appreciate you, but I'll tell you right now that I loved you. I still love you. And it has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with how good looking he is. It has to do with you because you're sweet. You're endearing uncomplicated, and you're so beautiful. I hope that you're happy together. I hope that this works out and he's everything that you need because you deserve it. But if he's not and it ends, I'll be there. It's my turn to wait. And I'm going to wait long enough.

Steve:

He doesn't have to wait too long though, because it's five months later and they are together. Yep. Patrick and Leslie, get to see the baby at an ultrasound appointment and decide they're going to name them Jack back. And I love that

Stephen:

Patrick and Leslie have now bonded. Yep. Yep. Taylor is running

Steve:

the Jac of broken heart and the group throws a surprise party for Dennis before he moves to.

Stephen:

Yup. And Kevin and Dennis are good again with the chemistry still there and is a going away gift. How in the others put up a wall of photos that Dennis had taken?

Steve:

Yep. Now, anything in this flash forward you would have liked to add or adjust?

Stephen:

No. I think that like, obviously watching it back then, I was like, oh, it's a, I don't want it to end. And things like that, something funny that I enjoyed also is that Cole's like, oh, I just did a movie with KIPP Rogers and this gay guy goes, I heard KIPP Rogers is gay. And finally Cole says, no, he's not gay. He's married. And I was like, that's

Steve:

gross. Yeah. It's a little bit of growth. I would have liked to see more of like him, like in a serious relationship with someone who didn't have to be anyone from the movie, but like him to be like, I've been with someone for a full four months.

Stephen:

And the movie ends with Kevin repeating Dennis's sentiment from the beginning that meeting his friends is the first time he felt okay. Being gay. What do you feel about Kevin and Dennis reuniting after Dennis has done being in Europe? I would like that. Yeah. I totally see it happening. I think that they both have found that someone in each other and that the right person could come along and it's just not the right time. And I think that they will find the right time for each other. That's

Steve:

what happened with us. It is what happened

Stephen:

with us, because as we've said before, when we first met in 2011, it did not go well. And then two and a half years later in 2013, It went more than

Steve:

all right. I know I'm teasing. And for such a, a, like a chunk of a movie that had so many different moving parts, so many different sets, so many different scenes, so many different stories going on the entire filming process only took 20 days. That's

Stephen:

so amazing because I look at this and the friendship and the relationship that the actor showed as characters, you wouldn't have thought, oh, they developed all of this. Like you don't, I don't know what order they filmed things

Steve:

in, but whatever order they did. I mean, the average movie takes one to three months to

Stephen:

film. Yeah. And they, they were able to bond and show a friendship that was very real and believable and. I was very impressed. So seeing this for your first time, what are your final thoughts?

Steve:

I like it, it definitely is a snapshot of what it was like to be gay at a certain time. Some things are still the same like the friendships that we make as we enter our young adulthood in our gay lives. Some things have evolved since then, like some of the gender stereotypes. But I really liked it and I'm glad that we watched it and it makes me happy that it makes you

Stephen:

happy. It very much makes me happy. And even after 22 years or so, that it's been since I've seen it. It still is one of my top 10 favorite movies just because it always makes me feel good. And there's so many lines. I quote like, and I had forgotten that when somebody says something and I'll go inhale that it was because of Taylor's

Steve:

line about Celine Dion. Yes. And for listeners who were, have been keeping a tracking sheet of every time, Stephen says it's one of his top 10 favorite movies. The moment that we get past number 10, let us know.

Stephen:

I can tell you some like clue is my number one.

Steve:

Princess bride is up there. Death becomes her.

Stephen:

Yes. And those are some of the ones that I believe that I have named. Yes.

Steve:

I'm sure there's been more probably. Yes. We'd love to know what your favorite movie is, especially if it's LGBT centered for pride month. Yes. So we can give you a shout out or maybe cover it in an upcoming episode. You can do that by getting in touch with us directly@happylifepodatgmail.com. Yes.

Stephen:

Or you can get in touch with us on all the socials, whether that is Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or talk at happy

Steve:

life pod. And until next time everyone stay happy and

Stephen:

queer.