A Lifetime of Happiness

Silence of the Lambs

April 21, 2021 Steve Bennet-Martin, Stephen Martin-Bennet, Melissa Speciale Season 1 Episode 64
A Lifetime of Happiness
Silence of the Lambs
Chapters
A Lifetime of Happiness
Silence of the Lambs
Apr 21, 2021 Season 1 Episode 64
Steve Bennet-Martin, Stephen Martin-Bennet, Melissa Speciale

The Steves invite Melissa Speciale on to discuss The Silence of the Lambs, along with their Binge and Purge recommendations.

Topics discussed:

  • Batwoman (CW)- Purge
  • Grey's Anatomy and Station 19 this season (ABC)- Binge
  • Grace and Frankie (Netflix)- Binge
  • Silence of the Lambs
    • Movie background details
    • The "Hannibal" Universe
    • Character Discussions
    • The Psyche of Dr. Lector and Buffalo Bill
    • The history of "The C Word"

Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.

Support the show (http://www.patreon.com/happylifepod)

Show Notes Transcript

The Steves invite Melissa Speciale on to discuss The Silence of the Lambs, along with their Binge and Purge recommendations.

Topics discussed:

  • Batwoman (CW)- Purge
  • Grey's Anatomy and Station 19 this season (ABC)- Binge
  • Grace and Frankie (Netflix)- Binge
  • Silence of the Lambs
    • Movie background details
    • The "Hannibal" Universe
    • Character Discussions
    • The Psyche of Dr. Lector and Buffalo Bill
    • The history of "The C Word"

Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.

Support the show (http://www.patreon.com/happylifepod)

Steve:

Hello returning happies and new listeners. This is Steve Bennet-Martin.

Stephen:

And this is Stephen Martin-Bennet. And welcome to a lifetime of happiness.

Steve:

The podcast, where we take you on our journey through some of the movies, television shows, and other bits of pop culture that are helping to keep us happy. We'll hopefully bring a smile to your face along the way. And

Stephen:

today we're going to be putting the lotion in the basket with super fan and serial killer enthusiast, Melissa Speciale. And not only that, but in the age of post COVID is she's able to be with here with us right now in the flesh. Welcome to the show, Melissa.

Steve:

And I invited you on for this episode specifically on the silence of the lambs, because it's one of your favorite movies of all time, isn't it? It

Melissa:

is. Yes. The best movie.

Steve:

Exactly. Why do you consider this the best movie of all time

Melissa:

then? So in college, I studied criminal forensic, psychology and anthropology. And interestingly, this movie, we get to study two serial killers in one movie. So that's probably why it's my favorite of all time.

Steve:

Excellent. So with that being your favorite movie of all time, it was only natural to have you on for it. But since it's been some time since we've had you on any of our podcasts, what's been making you happy

Melissa:

recently. So my team at work is the very best. They created a fun fundraising event for an employee that we unfortunately lost to a tragic accident. And this week we raised a lot of money for his family. And my team at work just all came together as a family to do that. So that made me really happy this

Steve:

week. Yeah. And it was a great event. He would have been proud. He also would have been laughing that I got to play country music on my Spotify for him. Yeah, exactly. Alexa was playing country on Spotify. So he just was T heating at that. Yes. And my loving heart of hearts what's been making you happy.

Stephen:

Well, actually it is of the seasoning. Because it finally rained in Sarasota. It feels like we've gone so long without rain. And the pollen has been trying to murder me specifically. I don't know if it's been affecting anybody else. It's

Steve:

been a personal attack on you only. It's good for the house. And even on your side of the bed, it's

Stephen:

been awful. And so it rained tonight and you could already smell the air. It was like, Oh, that's a lot better. So yeah. I'm enjoying a spring shower.

Steve:

Yes. And speaking of spring, I am happy because spring recently sprung with Easter and with the Easter bunny comes peeps. Yeah. And I was at work on the day before Easter or the Friday before Easter with a whole bunch of peeps. And then Friday. Yes, it was a good Friday, literally because I made the peeps challenge, the hardest peeps challenge. And I tried to see how many I could fit in my mouth. I got five and I maxed out there. You might love did the challenge and you ended up getting six, six. And I think you regretted that six one, but you had to beat me up. I had to,

Stephen:

there was no question. I was like, I saw how you did it. And I was like, well, I already see from his technique what he did wrong. And I know I can get at least one more.

Steve:

Yes you did. And we had other friends that participated as well. And just

Stephen:

your friend Neema'shusband, like got eight or nine.

Steve:

Yeah. She's a lucky girl. It doesn't work that

Stephen:

I know, but it's wonderful. And she is a

Steve:

lucky person. Yes, exactly. So, yes. Thank you for everyone who participated in the peep challenge because not only was it fun for me doing it, but it was fun seeing that it did catch on and more people did it. Yes.

Stephen:

That we also go over to our binge and purge section, where we talk about the things that we've been watching recently, whether you should bend them or purge them from your life. And so on this first one, Steve and I are somewhat on the same page

Steve:

and Steven is almost ready to purge something. Yes, he would be the worst. Like eating disorder person ever, because all he does is binge binge and he hardly ever purchased, but he agrees

Stephen:

hard for me to give up on something. But go ahead and talk about the show. Yeah. Yes.

Steve:

I love my superheroes in general, but Batwoman on the CW is a show that if you have not checked it out, I would officially say don't. Yeah. So like I love lesbians and I love people of color and starring roles and edgy things. And, you know, the whole, like, it was all great in theory, but it just wasn't, it was convoluted. And I mean, also the main actress who was Batwoman the first season was quit because she was like mad about the backlash, about being lesbian. Like you're a super duper lesbian in real life. You probably get this like all the time. Anyway. Why are you surprised? They're mad that you're a lesbian Batwoman of course, like all the CIS white males are going to hate on you for it. But she was

Stephen:

like, she also didn't like. The hours that were required for it. And so they had to recast,

Steve:

was she surprised that it was at night as well?

Stephen:

I don't know, but they recap, they decided in to not have just every casting, the part, they allegedly killed her character off and brought on somebody else to be that woman. And they spent half the season. I'm trying like, is she dead or is she not?

Steve:

And that's what lost me because I'm willing to give everything a chance for a fresh start. And it wasn't the show's fault that the actress that was the showrunner of the first season backed out. Yeah. That's her fault. But the fact that they knew that this person as a character was never coming back because the person basically shadow over the show when she left her, why did they make it last for 12 hours of wondering issue? Isn't she alive in the show? When we all know bitch is dead.

Stephen:

They like it. I honestly think if they had a gone more with a more definitive, she's dead,

Steve:

not coming back, even if you're this new bat woman.

Stephen:

And she's awesome. Even if they like narrowed it down to like two weeks of issue or is she not give us a chance to meet the new bat woman work on is Kate Kane dead, but they drug it out so long. Like. I'm going to give it to the end of the season. It's already been renewed for next season, but I'm not sure that we're cause like we gave up on arrow before it ended. We gave up on flash before it ended.

Steve:

Yeah. Yeah. You just hangs onto their social just a little bit.

Stephen:

And, and also I, there are certain things with TV shows where Netflix does it, right? Where you're telling a story in however many episodes, it takes not everything is 13. Not everything is 10. Sometimes it's eight it's however long they're telling the story, because recently we winded their regulars. It was like eight or 10. It wasn't 13 mini season. These shows that are on network TV. A lot of the times are forced to pad

Steve:

story because you have to have the 22 to 24 episodes, whether your story lasts that long or

Stephen:

not. Yeah. And we saw with arrow and flash, they definitely didn't. Yes.

Steve:

So I would say purge

Stephen:

that and. And I would say if you're watching it already, if you're not watching it, don't start. And if you are watching it, stick with me till the end of the season, and we'll re-examine at that point, meanwhile,

Steve:

I'll be playing video games on my switch and not paying attention to you while you are. But in terms of a show that we know a little bit about, but I've been hearing, Melissa has been bingeing it for quite some time. What have you been bingeing? I have

Melissa:

grace and Frankie and I will absolutely it's

Stephen:

we're or we're two seasons behind on that now.

Steve:

Yes, but it is definitely a show that I love. I love that you're watching it with Haley and you're failing aren't you?

Melissa:

I am. Yeah. So my daughter's watching it and there's something she doesn't get episodes. Yeah. We just leave that one alone.

Steve:

She didn't, she didn't say it like mom, like the toy, the things that they're selling,

Melissa:

nothing invented

Stephen:

as a thing. I do love that they came up with a vibrator for women that have arthritis. So it's easier on their wrist. I love that. I

Steve:

love that too. And I, I love the show. That was one of those where it came on, where there were so many other things on our list. When the seasons came out, that we'll just finish, we'll finish the last couple of seasons or as a continuous, this is still going on from what I know.

Stephen:

Yeah. So

Melissa:

season six was the last one and they're doing one more season, which will be seven, but it's not out yet. Okay.

Stephen:

So we, we have seen one through four.

Steve:

Excellent. Yes. Well, I love them. And

Stephen:

one show that are a duo show, Thursday nights, Shonda land TV. I love my station 19 and Grey's anatomy. Now station 19 was real slow to get going its first season. And I wasn't sure about it, but they got rid of a couple people move some stuff around and it's been getting a lot better. And I really like how, like we've been living through COVID. Yes. And they have found a way to acknowledge it from first responders and the hospital. Too, because we always said during this whole thing, Oh, the people in the hospitals and the first responders, what they're going through, that's so awful. And to get to show that, and they were smart with Grey's anatomy to have Meredith be the person that got COVID the worst, because you care the most. And it's been great for us to see some of the people come back to her beach and, but I am ready for her to wake up and be done with it, but it's been really good. And I mean, 17 seasons, I stuck with it the whole time. And

Steve:

exactly, and out of, I mean, in the Grey's anatomy is had a few sheriffs spinoffs. I mean, Melissa, have you ever watched any of the spinoffs or do you follow the Grey's anatomy or the Shonda land universe? I

Melissa:

just follow Grey's anatomy. Some my mom's favorite television show. So of course,

Steve:

yeah. Yeah. And so I know like one of them was private practice so, I mean, with so many different spinoffs though, like, this is, I think my favorite one, I love the gay guy on it. Who was also on the catch?

Stephen:

Oh, on station 19

Steve:

station 19. I love him on that one. And res I've fell off for the longest time trying to hate it. Cause I just loved how much it makes them cry. And then I was just like laughing, like up his tears.

Stephen:

So like whenever Christina Yang was leaving the show,

Steve:

Christina, it pissed me off so

Stephen:

much. Whenever I would hear that voice, he would say it just like that leading up to whenever she was leaving the show. And even that night when it was like her final episode, he was like, Good bye Christina. Yes, I am telling you.

Steve:

I know it was, it was very funny how the show always gets you. Cause I enjoy it now, but I don't cry over it. Oh I do. I know. And I enjoy that in you.

Stephen:

Well, let's move away from crying and head over to some cereal.

Steve:

Oh yes. Nothing will bring me happier. Smiles to my face, face than serial

Stephen:

killers. You do need to acknowledge that there is a large section of our population. These days that they're happy times are serial killer podcasts, serial killer documentaries, serial killer TV shows, zero killer movies. Like that's the thing that calms them, makes them happy. It's it's a big thing these days. It's no longer do it yourself. Like DIY shows it's murder shows. Well,

Steve:

yes. And might I re-introduce you to Melissa here and I do

Melissa:

love the serial killer podcast.

Steve:

Exactly. So, so you, you love the genre in general. What do you think has you so, and America in general, so interested in serial killers,

Melissa:

I think just studying the mind of serial killers. Well, you know, mental health is. At the forefront right now in society, right? Like it's being acknowledged more and all of that, but serial killers in general have personality disorders. So prior, like when silence of the lambs was made, people were sociopaths. But that term is a very old term and now it doesn't exist anymore. And so we're getting into the details of the actual mental health diagnoses. So I, I just think it's thrilling. You have

Stephen:

a favorite serial killer, like John Wayne Gacy, ed Gheen Ted Ted Bundy was the, I was gonna say, I think I do you like him because he's super attractive and super creepy

Steve:

and super

Stephen:

gay. Right. Was he gay? Yes. Yes. Well then, yeah. So he's the

Steve:

trifecta for Melissa because she loves her gay guy. I'm surprised she's not in a grace and Frankie situation right now with Anthony, because he's so straight, but you think she just would've found herself a nice beard,

Stephen:

but we're here to talk about the silence of the lambs.

Steve:

Yes. And that is a 1991, American psychological thriller directed by Jonathan Dami. Correct. And written by Ted tally. And it's adapted from Tom Harris's 1988 novel.

Stephen:

It, it, which if you haven't read the book is so very good. I really, really enjoyed all three of the books. And, but sounds of lamps. The book was fantastic.

Steve:

Yes. And since you love all, all of your actors and actresses, why don't you also let us know who it stars.

Stephen:

It stars, the original suntan lotion, baby, Jodie foster. She wide. Yeah. So, you know, the suntan lotion bottles where it has the dog pulling down the little girl's swimsuit and it shows her bear, but that was actually Jodie foster back in the day. Whoa.

Steve:

I had no idea that was, were you hiding that in your pocket for me here?

Stephen:

Nope. Like I just that's, I, that was the only one of those little known facts that I've known for like 20 some years. Wow. Well thank you. Yeah. And, but what was it? That's not, she wasn't the Coppertone baby. Was she? It was I can't think of what it was now, but you, everybody knows the picture. The picture. Yeah. Okay. So Jodie foster is Clary startling. Ted Levine is Buffalo bill. Anthony Hopkins is Dr. Hannibal Lecter.

Steve:

Yeah. Yes. And it was a huge paper back bestseller. The rights for it were brought right away by Orion pictures. And originally it was going to be starring and directed by gene Hackman. But halfway through, he bowed out because of its violent content. They encourage the scriptwriter to keep on writing it. And by the end they had hired Jonathan Demi too, finish it. So

Stephen:

I can actually see gene Hackman playing Hannibal Lecter. It would have been different, but I can absolutely see him doing it because he's a very, very talented actor. He doesn't get to go this dark usually with a lot of his stuff, but he has the potential.

Steve:

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting. Cause he was the one who said like, I don't want to go that dark and dark. It did go. But ironically with how dark it is it came out as one of the, the, this is actually the second movie we've covered. That's a Valentine's day release.

Stephen:

Deadpool was the other one. Yes.

Steve:

Yes. So two movies that you would not characterize as it, but, but would you consider this a date night movie, Melissa,

Stephen:

all day long? Yes. It absolutely date night movie. And that I think most horror movies unless you, you know, not the human centipede, not that no, but that's

Steve:

not a, that's not any sort

Stephen:

of movie, like just like roller coasters, horror movies create the chemical reactions to make people drawn closer to the people that are with. So I can see this as a date night movie.

Steve:

Yes. To Shea and the America and the world a great cause it did end up grossing $272.7 million worldwide on its $19 million budget.

Stephen:

That's pretty impressive. And it was so well done. It is the third film ever. Besides it happened one night and one flew over the Cuckoo's nest to win all of the top five categories that the Academy awards, best picture, best director, best actor, actress, and adapted screenplay or regular screenplay. And, and

Steve:

it wasn't a one and done, was it either, it was a part of a series

Stephen:

trilogy, and I'm the only person to be in all three was Anthony Hopkins and the used special technology at the time for, because the third film in the trilogy that was released was actually the pre-call. They had used special technology to D H M. For the pre-qual that's cool. They had originally released the first book in the series. I'm calling it my my man Hunter and whenever they re released it with him in it, it was called red dragon, which was the name of the

Steve:

book. Gotcha. Yes. Well, thank you for clearing that up. And then not only that it has like on as well to also be on a Netflix show Hannibal and then Clarice, we're watching right now and we're loving it. That's been on our benches before

Stephen:

to be fair. Hannibal was originally on NBC. Well, now it's on that and now you can find the burn that flicks. And yes. And we have talked about how wonderful Clery says on CBS, where Hannibal is a pretty cool Clarice is a sequel taking place one year. And

Steve:

might I say that? I'm sure we'll talk about it a couple of times throughout this discussion as well, because they really are true to the source material and very after watching the show and then watching the movie, they really are

Stephen:

very close. They do a really good job of picking up on the little things like where Senator Martin they're like in the junior Senator, from Tennessee and in Clarice, her daughter is like, you know, if it weren't for me, you'd still be the junior Senator from Tennessee. And I was like, that's a nice little dig right there to bring, pull back from the movie. Yeah, I am DB says that. If you want to describe the movie, a young FBI cadet must receive the help of an incarcerated and manipulative cannibal killer to help catch another serial killer, a madman who skins his victims. Yes.

Steve:

And Melissa, how would you summarize the movie being you're like, what is the movie about

Melissa:

to me, the movie? I mean, this is a good job summarizing it. I, I love that Hannibal is a psychiatrist, right? A trained psychiatrist. I think that that's the most intriguing part for me. And knowing that, you know, he kind of takes her in under his wings, although he's this monster as they say. Right. But definitely a. You know, incredible movie where he can know who the other killer is because he's done it. Right. Like that's what he strives to do is his murders. One of my favorite parts of the whole movie is when he is breaking out of the jail and he murders those gentlemen and it's like the most gruesome scene. Right? Yeah. So I love that part because it really shows you that darker side of him and why they're calling him a monster the whole time. Because before that you really start actually liking him for telling Clarice and, and, you know, getting in with her. So it really shows that darker side. Awesome.

Stephen:

And I love the mind games that he's playing with her the whole time and she enjoys it as well. And I, I know that a psychiatrist or a psychologist would take it back to. The loss of her father at an early age. And you have this learned man who acknowledges that she's intelligent and gives her the right compliments and pushes her the right way is coming in as this weird father figure in the movie for her. And that is a creepy dark turn, but also it plays throughout. If you've read the books that continues into the Hannibal book sequel, and like, I see what she sees in him, obviously the criminal, and she acknowledges that, but she also sees the man and the brain behind that, that a lot of people have stopped looking at or acknowledging. They're like, he's just a monster. Don't let him play games with you. And. She sees everything else he could be. Yes. And I

Steve:

mean, I think that's also interesting because I mean, he is a monster, but he is still a man as well. And the whole dichotomy between monster and man is something that's always very crunchy to talk about. But as we get into it, a lot of the stuff that we're gonna be mentioning we actually are going to be borrowing the facts from the DVDs 2011 documentary called inside the labyrinth. That's where I got my smarty pants information from at least. And one of the first things that the documentary goes into is Clarice. The main protagonist.

Stephen:

So Clarice is still at the Academy. She has not graduated yet. She's close. She's the most likely top of her class, which doesn't always happen for a woman and especially a woman with her background coming from very rural West Virginia. I'm not a person of means and to get where she got at this point and to achieve what she has says a lot about her, her intelligence and her determination. And you see that even just at the beginning, whenever they, the opening credits are coming and she's running the obstacle course at the Langley training Academy. And like, she is not one you can already tell she's determined that she's not going to give up and what she's doing. Yeah. I

Steve:

mean, even during that montage, like to me, like watching it, I'm just like, this is someone who's had to work twice as hard to get half as far as a lot of the people around her and that's women in general. I mean, is that something that you identified with with her, like being a woman in a male dominated industry, typically we're oftentimes like, do you think. Yeah.

Melissa:

Well, definitely, especially in my younger years, I mean, I was, when I met my husband, Anthony, I was actually applying for the drug enforcement agency undercover. And so, yeah, absolutely. And I think it's interesting too, even the ways that you see the men throughout the movie, kind of looking down on her and not just from a physical standpoint, but the way that they are seeing her as a being like, why is she in this position? Well,

Stephen:

even like in two very clear scenes doing that the elevator scene at the beginning, when she's called to head to the office and she gets in and all the guys are taller than her, and she's the only woman in the elevator. And then also whenever they first had to go look at the body and all the state troopers are there looking down on her and her, she even has to call it her boss because he misogynistically was like, Pushing her aside. So everybody else saw that she's not important to him. She doesn't need to be important to us.

Steve:

Yes. And I mean, it's unfortunate that it seems like when they're not disregarding her altogether, they're sexualizing her. Cause we even have one then with Dr. Chilton, this clip right here, that kind of shows you how skeevy men can be

Stephen:

from a research point of view, Lecter is our most prized asset. You know, we get a lot of detectives here, but I must say, I can't ever remember. One is attractive. Will you be in Baltimore overnight? Because this can be quite a fun town. If you have the right guide, I'm sure this is a great town after Chilton, but. My instructions are to talk to Dr. Lecter and report back this afternoon.

Steve:

I hear this can be quite the fun town if you have the right guide. Isn't that so creepy, incredibly crazy. And the fact that like, I mean, I was mortified watching this, like rewatching I'm like this was like at work as she's reporting to him and like right off the bat, he's just like, let's go out to dinner tonight.

Stephen:

I mean, he doesn't treat her as like, if it was a man, he would have automatically given respect to her, but he treats her as something that he can potentially have a conquest because. He's Dr. Shelton and he runs the facility and she should be impressed by him.

Steve:

Yeah. And I find it interesting. I just want to know your perspective. Cause I mean, similarly, like Clarice, you present very strong and very assertive. So like in most guys, I don't see like instantly being like creeping on you instinctively, but I'm sure it's still happens.

Melissa:

So it's happened in the past. Definitely. I think as I've grown in my personality, it doesn't so much anymore. I don't know if that's just because I'm forward and off-putting, or people know I'm married. I don't know what that is anymore, but Certainly when you're younger, you know, definitely like at her age coming out of the FBI Academy, she's very smart. I loved her rebuttal against that though, where she just totally shot him down in a second. That to me is like an incredible part of the, the movie. And she

Stephen:

does it in such a smart way where she says, Oh, I have to get right back to Langley. And you know, he gets the point, but she wasn't, she knows how to play the game properly as a woman in a man's world, especially trying to enter the old, the largest old boys club. There is the FBI.

Steve:

Absolutely. Yeah. So what the, what quite the boys club it is

Stephen:

now, you said that Jodie foster almost lost the part to Michelle Pfeiffer. And as soon as you said that, I was like, I can absolutely see that because Michelle Pfeiffer would have been coming off of a lot of the Scarface and stuff at the time, and like nothing against Jodie foster, because she was amazing in this, unlike the gene Hackman, where I was like, eh, it would have been different. I could have seen Michelle Pfeiffer nailing

Steve:

this role. Yeah. And I, they, part of their reason why they kind of contributed like Michelle not accepting the roller going forward as hard as Johnny did. Cause Jody went for the role. Like she really pursued it was that it wasn't what you really consider the typical, like best actress nominee type of role. It is more of a quiet subdued lead female role, as opposed to like, there's no huge like emotional crying breakdowns and things like that that you expect from the leading female performances of the time.

Stephen:

Well, and it also, if you go back and you watch the amount of screen time that he has. Hannibal's part could have easily been moved into a supporting character.

Steve:

Well, also as someone reading who read the book, like they said that when writing the screenplay that they emphasized his part more for the movie than even in the book, do you agree? Absolutely.

Stephen:

It it was highlighted more and strengthened more because even though if you go back to red, dragon is wasn't as much about Hannibal van. This was definitely Clarice's story. It wasn't until the success and the fan base of people really liking him playing Hannibal Lecter, that the next book was written, definitely highlighting Hannibal more as a character. It, he, he saw the goal that he had at that point. And. Increased to the character. This is definitely Clarice's story. Yes,

Steve:

certainly. But something about the relationship, I mean, within like their first interaction, he does the best job. Even summarizing it for our listeners who might not have watched her for a while kind of describing who she is or how he played, or

Stephen:

trying to me with your good bag and your cheap shoes. You look like a robe while scrubbed hustling, or with the little taste. Good nutrition has given you some length of bone that you're not more than one generation from poor white trash. Are you agent styling and that accident you've tried so desperately to shed pure West Virginia. What does your father DSE a comm line? Does it stink a little land? You know how quickly the buys find you, all those tedious sticky fumblings in the backseat of cars, but you could only dream of getting out,

Steve:

getting all the way to the end.

Stephen:

I love that so much. It's purely showing the mind games that he can play with people and how good he is at reading people instantly that he picks up on. Like, even that, like later, he's talking also about you use this lotion, but not today, or you use this perfume, but not today. He can tell that it was still on there. He has enhanced olfactory senses, but able to see, you know, that those were her good shoes and her old bag, and being able to hear the accent that she was. Somewhat successfully trying to hide, but not really well.

Steve:

Yeah. And what'd you say though, did he figure out her more than she figured out a hammer? How has that relationship?

Melissa:

I think that I think she was really more focused on not just getting to know him, but really on the Buffalo bill situation. So in terms of Dr. Lecter, I think he'd tend to her initially and throughout the movie. I mean, the silence of the lambs part, like that whole part, when he goes into her getting, you know, getting that out of her, what really happened that night when she ran away? To me, he just, yeah, he got into her mind right away. And then that continued

Stephen:

throughout and she was always on the defensive with him, even whenever she felt that she could go for something, she was always reacting. She was never the instigator. Even when she came with the test and stuff, she was always on her heels to him. He, he knew exactly what she was and was going after right away. And so I do want to talk about the West Virginia thing. I know we've talked about it before, but so they do a much better job here, especially whenever they show the flashbacks. And I was like, that could easily be West Virginia that looked like it and her mannerisms and some of the things I think that they handled it very well.

Steve:

They handled this better or worse than the wrong turn series

Stephen:

better says while they just, you know, insinuate the West Virginia and the poor white trash, they, he doesn't talk down to her that. Just because that's where she's from. That that's all she can ever be. And sometimes depending on what state they're doing, whether it's Kentucky or Mississippi or West Virginia, they, some movies like to pigeonhole people that that's it and where you are. And they do a, a good job with this. And I feel West Virginia got a fair shake. Well,

Steve:

sounds good. I'm glad that West Virginia approves of Clarice and silence of the lambs in general now, Jodie, also one of the last things that I really want to give her credit for is the amount of work that she put into getting herself in the mindset for the movie, because she actually trained with special agent Marianne Kraus. You commented on how she was very sharp and eager to learn, not just about the FBI, but about me because during the process of training her and shadowing her and asking her or getting into the character psyche, you know, she asked like, how do you handle it? Sometimes like some days. One of her responses was I just some days I just have to just go into my car and cry and, you know Mary and Kraus special agent said when she saw it, she's like, I felt myself and I saw myself in her throughout the entire performance that, you know, it was nice seeing an emotionally complex, but still powerful woman, because typically when women are portrayed as strong in a lot of pop culture, it's like, they're just all brass and no vulnerability, but she managed to really find this fine line between being emotional, but still strong.

Stephen:

And that scene where she standing outside of her car and she just leaning on it, crying like it it's nice. It humanizes her even more because sometimes Clarice, because she has to compete in a man's world can portray herself as more robotic. And that was a way where she was. Acknowledging I'm still human things still bother me.

Steve:

Yeah. Well, what's your favorite thing about Clarice?

Melissa:

Well, my favorite thing about Clarice is her drive to never give up, you know, like until the very end, like she, no matter what, just put in the grit and, and got her job done. And it was so important to her, you know, like her passion for what she was doing was so important throughout the whole movie.

Steve:

Yes. And she got to not only learn a lot through Dr. Electric, but ultimately catch the bad guy. Buffalo bill. See, you got your two in one serial killer combo in this movie. Yes. So getting into Dr. Lecter himself. Yes, please. I was gonna say, would you say that he's best summarized as a monster?

Stephen:

Maybe I wouldn't, but let's hear what they say. Who's the subject psychiatrist, Hannibal Lecter. I don't expect him to talk to you. But I have to be able to say we tried. And you didn't tell him nothing personal Starling. Believe me, you don't want Hannibal Lecter inside your head. Just do your job, but never forget what he is. And

Steve:

what is

Stephen:

that? Oh, he's a monster pure psychopath. See, I don't think he is a monster or a pure psychopath. I think obviously, you know, killing people and eating them. It's very wrong. He shouldn't do it.

Steve:

I was gonna say, I mean, do we want to get the, I would say the brain out of the room or the flash out of the room at this point, he is a cannibal as well. Yeah. So yes, you can hear him best. Describe it here. And then my Lomo here, we'll give her a little reenactment for the clip too.

Stephen:

Census taker. Once tried to test me, I ate his liver. With some fava beans and a nice key MD.

Steve:

I'm sorry, what was that sound? Yeah, I actually think you do it almost is better than better than the Hannibal did.

Stephen:

I mean, that's one of the, that's one of the clips that people grow up with and doing as ad-libbed. I know that that kills me, that like the whole thing was ad-libbed or just

Steve:

that part at the end. And that's

Stephen:

what made it

Steve:

iconic. Yeah. And that's what it was. And that was just in the take. And at the time they didn't even say like you got it or that's it. Like, he went with them thinking like, well, they'll cut that part. And when he saw it at the end, he was like, Oh wow. They kept

Stephen:

it. And honestly that is one of, because if they hadn't have kept that it's a throwaway line. Yeah. Him adding that adds such depth and. Ups the creepiness factor so much because you can still people that are bothered by this movie. Like my mom, which actually I, so I want to take a moment here to go off on a quick story. Go for it. My mom was terrified of this movie and have Hannibal Lecter in general. And when it came out I don't think it came to my hometown. We are, we at a movie theater. We actually have the longest continuous running movie theater in the country. And but it didn't come to there. And so when it came on a video, mom and dad and Barry were watching it, I was sent to my room to play video games. And after it was done, Barry came in and said, Hey. The movie was scary and it really scared mom sneak back to her room. And when she goes back, they're scared. And I said, okay. And yeah, what kind of kid is going to say no to that? Because like we loved scaring mom. I used to put rubber snakes in her sweater drawers. So when she would open it up, the snakes would pop like spring out and she would scream and that always didn't go over the best anyway. So I snuck back around the house through and went into a closet and hid behind all of her clothes. And I was standing up there and she was coming to put some sweaters away. And I reached my hand through the shirts and said, hi mom. And she threw the sweaters in the air, screamed a scream. I've never heard. And ran up into the kitchen and was screaming and screaming and wouldn't stop. And I came up front because I was terrified at that point. I had a mom and she passed out screaming, like, like it, and first

Steve:

tell her that we're doing this episode. I didn't see, might be skipping this

Stephen:

one, like Barry and dad were laughing originally until she passed out from screaming. And like, then they realized, Oh shit, we're in trouble. And Barry knew he was in trouble cause he put me up to it. And so she woke up obviously. But

Steve:

it, it would have been a much different story if she hadn't yet, but

Stephen:

we definitely like, that's still a thing of I scared mom till she passed out. And she was pissed that Barry and dad were just laughing originally until she passed out. So that's the silence of the lambs holds special meaning in our family? Yes.

Steve:

Well, and I mean, obviously his performance, it's so much for making the character creepy and iconic, but the idea of being a cannibal is also something I think that made people, like I identify him as a monster is the act of cannibalism. I mean, how do you feel about that? Like in terms of this kind of being a cannibal, make you a monster, what might make someone a cannibal, miss criminologists, smarty pants?

Melissa:

Well narcissistic personality disorder, most serial killers are diagnosed with that disorder. Cannibalism is, you know, he, when he says to Clarice about what Buffalo bill has or what makes him. You know, do something and she's talking about, Oh, he kills woman. And she says, no, he says, no, that's not actually, you know what, what it is, it's coveting something. So that in, in my mind, when he says that about coveting something, that's truly what it's about. Right? So it hits some kind of psyche for him that he literally covets, like there's a desire and a deep need to actually eat human

Stephen:

body parts. And something that I see with Dr. Lecter is I bet you, there are certain people that he killed along the way that broke societal norms or rules of manners and decorum. And because he felt that they weren't as polite and kind as they should have been in certain situations. That that in itself was what made them deserving of death.

Melissa:

And interestingly, he, most of who he kills, like throughout the movie are his patients right? Who had mental health? Yeah. She's

Steve:

like a San, I wonder at that point. Cause there's something to be said about, especially like with my psychology background as well. I mean, you spend your day or your career analyzing and consuming the human mind that he spends like his cure consuming the mind and then outside of work, he wants to consume the body. So,

Stephen:

And I may be weird with this. Him being a cannibal didn't bother me. It was his laser focus and being able to read people. That I found the creepiest.

Steve:

Yeah. And I think that that's what he tried to do is make that creepy because he said he didn't find the horror aspect of the Phillip setting. He's like eating someone's face was so ridiculous that he didn't find it upsetting to do it when they normally are like, Oh, you know, playing this part, put you in a dark place. Did it make you upset? Did it make you like we are being in the serial killers money? He's like, no, it was ridiculous. They had me eat someone's face.

Stephen:

And I honestly think he ate the guy's nose and everything. I think that was less about eating where there are certain wounds. You can give somebody that they're going to be able to fight through. I think biting somebody's nose off besides hitting major blood vessels in them, possibly bleeding out and all the nerves right there. I think that was one of the things that guy was going to be. A victim at that point, if he had stabbed him or hit him, you know, we've seen James' mom get shot in the side and still win the day.

Steve:

I think once your nose has bitten off, you're kind of out for the count.

Stephen:

I think that's exactly right. I think if somebody ever bites off James bonds knows it's going to be a different,

Steve:

all right. Well, we'll look out for that in the sequel. Well, one thing that I've found in terms of making the, in the making of the movie is that. The iconic look though, of him being a cannibal wearing that mask, that fiberglass mask, they tried so many different contraptions around his face of cages and mouthpieces and IMS and head P like so much. And that piece of fiberglass, they got though, they got it with every intention of like painting it white or flesh colored. And when they got up, they were like, Nope, it looks just so creepy. Just being plain that they left it as is.

Stephen:

And they do have the one scene where he is in the cage and his nose is smashed flat. And like, in my mind, I was like, I bet you that's pissing him off. Like the, the mask I think he could live with. I think him being treated like an animal where the, his nose is being smashed flat. I was like, I bet you that pisses him off more than the math. Well,

Melissa:

and interestingly, that's the part where he's laser focused and ends up somehow getting the pen.

Stephen:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then later with the w w w and the is able to spit the part of a pin out so he could undo his handcuffs.

Steve:

Yes. And to lead up to that part of the reason why I was able to break out was a phrase that I still am not very clear that I know that the definition of, so let's play the clip and then you can give me the lexicon because I chose another word to research instead of this one. Okay. Sounds charming.

Stephen:

I should only part of the Island. There's very, very nice beach terns nest. There. There's beautiful turns. If I help you, it varies. Bobby turns with us to quid pro quo. I taught you things. You tell me things, not about this case, though, about you. So put pro quo. Yes, no. Yes. And no Berets for a little, Catherine is waiting. Quid pro quo, Clary is quid pro cloud. So I give you something, you give me something

Steve:

with context. Like I know that that's, it means like I'll do something for you if you do something for me, but like, what is like quid pro quo, like translate to

Stephen:

it comes from the Latin and it means bitch better. Give me my money if I give you something.

Steve:

Okay. Gotcha. Well thank you for, for putting that to rest. You're welcome. Now we did briefly touch on earlier when we were talking about Clarice and Dr. Elector having this relationship, you know, that they, he was instantly kind of a father figure to her of sorts. Yes. And one of the ways that he did it was he ended up actually he got the guy killed well,

Stephen:

so he talked the guy into swallowing his own tongue.

Steve:

And the reason why he did it was because of this clip.

Stephen:

Yeah, so that's exactly, that was multiple MIGS and he was next door to lector. And the reason that he did it is because he broke the rules of decorum. You don't, there was no Clarice had done nothing to deserve that treatment. And Dr. Lecter found it objectionable.

Steve:

Yes. And so with that might I say that I did not see this movie for quite some time as a young child, and I just wished that I had, so that I had learned the C-word earlier because as a modern, like, modern day as an adults, I love the C word and you

Stephen:

the minority,

Steve:

but, and you're, you're discouraging. I'm sorry, not using it as much as I would love to, because I would love this just to be involved with P P P P P I'm just me saying it, but yeah, one of my favorite things about working my, my Tuesday through Thursday, Saturday schedule is when I leave work on Fridays, I get to tell everyone, see you next Tuesday.

Stephen:

So did tell me that was his favorite out. And I was like, do they realize how you're saying it?

Steve:

Crystal always did. I don't know. And I think I told her, I was like, Melissa knows now, so yes, but I love that word so much, but I'm not in the minority because the word used to not always be so bad. No, I said you're in the

Stephen:

minority now.

Steve:

Now I'm in the minority. I don't, I don't know, Melissa, where do you stand on that word?

Melissa:

I mean, I come from a very loud Italian family who used that word forever growing up. So to me it's normal language, but you know,

Stephen:

I grew up in the family. You know, that word was not, I was going to say, and

Steve:

the fact that there is like a 10% chance that she might listen to it as the reason why I'm not saying it well,

Stephen:

so that, but that, but that is also one of the quotes that especially gay men love to do, like Ronnie and I used to do that to Monica all the time. We'd go up to her and say, and I'm going to say it, go for it. We go. Smell

Steve:

your yes. Well, the funny thing is I would, I had an experience once when I was letting a girl from my college to move in with me, after our breakup, I needed a roommate to help pay the rent. And she moved in and we were moving during her time of the month. And she said at one point, when she went over to pick up a box, she said out last, she goes, Oh, I smelled my cut. And I just want him to just throw up everything within me. I was like shower, shower.

Stephen:

Now you don't like the things that are associated with that time of the month and things because they have the new commercials right now for the past. Yeah. They go. It's those what? The gush moments. Yeah,

Steve:

I think that that's foul. Yes, but the, I did some research from the establishment blog and an article by Mina Moriarty titled our self contempt originated in this in knowing we are cunt. So according to the author and historian and Geller, it's the first, first appearance in the Oxford English dictionary was in 1972. And it saw the word having been first sited originally in London in 1230 as the street name, grope con lane, a supposedly red light district.

Stephen:

Which that makes sense because if you go back to a lot of, I mean, so the word hysteria is how we get hysterectomy. Because if you, if a woman has a hysterectomy, it gets rid of what causes their hysteria. So it's not shocking that they take Women like sex workers and that's where they get the word come from.

Steve:

Yes, exactly. But I mean, while the true etymology is a matter of debate, it was originally not considered as offensive being used in Renaissance, like body versus entails. It was in trusters Canterbury tales,

Stephen:

Chaucer. Wasn't the most, like if you've ever read the Canterbury tales, it's kind of body and

Steve:

turtle. I know it's a little dirty, but it wasn't like offensive. I think what they were saying was it wasn't like, it's not taught in school anymore. It isn't, but they love it. And Britain more than they love it over here. Well,

Stephen:

in Britain, they, which is weird. So Britain, they have a much freer thing with sex and words and things, but not emotion and connection. Like they're a more emotionally cold than we are, but they're less offended by everything than we are. So that's, that's a weird. Dichotomy. I

like

Steve:

it though, but yes, it was only around Shakespeare's era during the Dawn of Christian doctrine that its meaning began to shift towards the offensive. Even Shakespeare himself would rather than saying the word directly though, he did allude to the word using suggestive where it's like cut Constable and even Hamlet. He said country as a substitute for the word. And so he did use it. But middle-aged Christian clergyman preached the idea of the women's genitals as a potent source of evil, referring to it as the connoisseur diabolic meaning devilish. Hm.

Stephen:

Right wing Christian people. Deciding to demonize women because they can't control themselves. Exactly. What a weird, I know,

Steve:

not to mention that originally the word was something beautiful. One potential origin was the Hindu goddess Kiante and she represents the beauty and power of the female matriarchy, but also encompass life itself.

Stephen:

But if you also, which that's fantastic, you know, your favorite story of The women who brew beer L lives, hail lives and how they were turned into witches. Yeah. Yes. The

Steve:

Christian Church just demonized us women of all sorts to ever try and have any sort of power. I mean, during that time of the kind of shrines across South Asia depicting any references to the goddess, CUNY were destroyed because they were deemed grotesque and blasphemous to the point where it's hard to find actual, legitimate sculptures to the goddess committee from those times back when they were practiced, because they were literally wiped out.

Stephen:

I mean, they, the story of the Virgin Mary, like it's her Virgin, this and wholesomeness, instead of being like some of the things from India where it's all about

Steve:

owning your body. Yes. Yes. Now, nowadays, a lot of women in pop culture and modern culture are trying to reclaim it and using it as a power of taking it back that word. Do you think that that's something that women can take back Melissa as women herself? Or do you think that society is always going to be kind of not thrilled with the word?

Melissa:

Well, I think always it'll be a dirty word, just like the F word. Right. But I do think that women can reclaim it, especially with the origin and the Hindu goddess. I mean, You know, society's changing every day. And so hopefully we can reclaim it as a power word.

Steve:

Yes. Well then do you want to say the word ones? Just for everyone out there? Hunt. Wonderful. Thank you everyone. That's my boss. So

Stephen:

I do think there is the potential in that like with gay people reclaiming the word queer.

Steve:

Yes. Or even, I mean, I know some that use the F word. I don't like using it myself, but I know of many that will do it. Yeah. I still

Stephen:

don't think that that one is fully reclaimable yet. Even though we first time judge people who do know, even though the first time I read Bridget Jones diary and she was having a fag out the window, I was like, I don't understand this at all.

Steve:

I don't know. But I liked the idea of having a fag out the window

Stephen:

and it turns out that it was a cigarette. Oh, okay.

Steve:

And I imagined something doggy style. When you say that's a little dirtier. Yes. Now. Dr. Lecturer is not the only serial killer in the movie. We also have Buffalo bill who's the active, bad serial killer is out

Stephen:

the rate of kill people, which is funny where the fans will find a way to take Dr. Lecter to a place where he's not the villain. There's no way to do that with Buffalo

Steve:

bill. No, he is the one that was inspired by America's obsession with serial killers. He's kind of a conglomerate of ed Gheen, Ted Bundy and Gary. Hi Nick or three that were like really drawn on specifically in the movie. Did you see that with all of your studies of all of these men? Absolutely.

Melissa:

And you know, Buffalo, Bill's very intriguing because he is keeping trophies, right? Like some of these other men did throughout history even putting the bug moth down the women's throats, you know, that's, that's especially intriguing because. Each serial killer would do a specific thing to their victims in a certain way. And that, that was his, like that was

Steve:

his Mark. And it is interesting with something like that because typically, you know, I understand and I've hear people taking trophies all the time, but the fact that he gave them this month, that's like, super-duper rare. I mean, so, so the fact that they were saying on set, that those were the most pampered actors on set because they were, had to be a certain degrees and only could speak for so long, but I'd like to give them with this record. I

Stephen:

don't think it's, I think it's power and control again, that I took something from you and I'm able to like mutilate your body afterwards by putting something in it. And it also goes into the serial killer's calling card where they think that they're smarter than everybody else. And he was definitely interesting. He falls. So my dad will be the first one to tell you that he can go. My dad will be the first one to tell you that he can go to a store. And if he can't find something and this, he would do this in his forties and fifties, he would play the helpless male and be like, you know, I just can't find this and older women that worked at the store. No problem, honey. I'll show you where it is because there's something in women's nature that if a woman, if a man is in need, like, because I know growing up, my dad would never stop and ask for directions. But if he had, I think that that would have been like in my mom's eye. Oh, he stopped and asked for directions. Like, and so like a guy needing help in a store or like Buffalo bill did broken arm. Can you help me get this into my truck type of thing that that was a really bad Buffalo bill. It's all right.

Steve:

You do better with it. Another part it's more than enough, but yeah, I mean, and that was something that right out of a Ted Bundy would put his arm in a fake cash, just like Buffalo bill wouldn't he? And so that's something that they drew on directly, but the especially, cause I mean, I can imagine that women wouldn't be as apt to help have fully capable body male. I mean, what'd you grow up with, to a guy who was like six foot two and like 400 pounds and be like, here, let me help you, Mr.

Melissa:

No, absolutely not. I'd go running in the opposite direction.

Steve:

Exactly. So that's exactly how himself,

Stephen:

right. And that's how he got Catherine Martin who was an intelligent, independent woman, but she sees the guy struggling with account. She sees the, as a cast and her good nature and I, Hey, do you need any help with that? And boom.

Steve:

Yes. Now she is the main victim ready to be in danger during it, but he's already claimed victims at this time. And one thing that I was interested in learning during the making of the documentary was that they weren't real like victims. They didn't use dead bodies.

Stephen:

So the pictures that you see all

Steve:

over pictures and all of the, the, you know, the victims were actually, and they weren't even fake bodies either. They were actual actors that were alive that were like strip naked and covered in mud and filth outside in the water. It's, you know, in the middle of the night, I feel really bad for them. Well, I

Stephen:

do too, but also I bet you, that was. A faster and much cheaper way to get all those photos done. Then coming up with dummies and prosthetics and everything,

Steve:

and exactly. But I would love to be in a, something where I can get a prosthetic of me. Like like if like I got my head chopped off in something in like a scary movie and they got to have like a chopped off head of me that I could keep up like a decapitated Steve head, and then I could bring it to work for Halloween with me and like leave it around the places,

Stephen:

the the walking dead actors and actresses. If you get turned on the show and you get killed on the show, you get to keep the part of you, whether it's the zombie head and stuff. So, and you get to go through this whole process where they do prosthetics and stuff of you so that whenever you change over, I think that's kinda cool.

Steve:

now, what do you like or find interesting, at least about the serial killer Buffalo bill?

Melissa:

There's nothing not to like about him. I think what well, so vastly different than Hannibal Lecter. He is that super non-intelligent guy, right? Like he's one who that is not even an aspect of him. What I think is so interesting is what he does with the skin of his victims, you know, sewing it together. The fact that he's dressing like a woman, I mean, there's, he's so conflicted in so many ways, but that's what makes him so intriguing.

Steve:

Yeah. I mean the sheer madness of when he was yelling about the lotion in the basket, which, I mean, let's just go there because that's where everyone always knows him from. It's a real

Stephen:

important woman, I guess

Steve:

how it places the lotion in the basket

Stephen:

so, and that was the most disturbing part of that scene for me is when she starts screaming and he's up there and he has no emotion on his face, but then he starts in the hole mimicking her. That was chilling. Yes. Oh, so. People now know our friend, Ronnie from the Downton Abbey episode. Yes. Sophomore year of college kind of goes along with this and I was helping Ronnie move into his new apartment. And I said, what all have you gotten packed and negative over there? And he goes, yeah. I packed this here, basket. See, I put the lotion in the basket and it was like, you better keep up more than that because I'm not packing all your clothes for you. Was that all he attacked? As my swear to God, it was his cigarettes, his wallet and some load. Okay.

Steve:

Let me see. I would have to ask Ronnie, maybe we can't even dial them in and add the sooner, but in the meantime, but I wonder whether he thought, because he was so clever to think of the joke that he thought that that was equal to the effort of packing. Cause he was blessing you with that

Stephen:

joke. I pack the, a basket. Yeah. So the lotion in the basket is another one of those things like the, that everybody knows everybody mimics and like it's interesting. You hadn't seen this movie. Really, until I showed you last year, it was one of

Steve:

those where like I had seen it in bits and clips and things, but I don't like to meet with Greece. Exactly. Which we'll get to eventually

Stephen:

with you. Cause I've never seen grease all the way through, from start to finish

Steve:

for someone who's seen thousands and millions of movies. I've never,

Stephen:

I've seen grease the stage show. I've seen Greece alive. So we're

Steve:

going to have to invest in on for that.

Stephen:

I've never seen grease the movie all the way through. Yes. But

Steve:

anyway, back to this, yes. And speaking of, I mean, that, that's something that people know him from, but there's another thing that with the hiding the junk, I mean, every guy does that. Right. Well,

Stephen:

because of this movie, especially like most guys have tried it. Once or twice the sticking it between your legs and dancing. I

Steve:

remember doing that with other kids, like at summer camp when I was like, really little like, I mean like,

Stephen:

well, I mean, I also remember had a special Catholic camps.

Steve:

Well maybe I remember having sword fights with one of my friends, with our wieners, but little boys don't do that as well. We just don't talk about it, but you see, you did it too. So I was gonna say I had little Wiener, sword fights share. It was something like that. Yeah. But I had that, so it was like that. And then I

Stephen:

remember, yeah, I believe at camp, you stuck it between your

Steve:

legs. He would be like, but we'd be like, look, we're in the girl's locker room. We're all girls.

Stephen:

No, no, no. The hole between your legs, things like that. You're talking about hearing thing. That was mostly what people did in private, in front of a mirror Marine activist scene.

Steve:

Oh, okay. Well, one of us in that little group had a really fucked up and they brought it to camp and spread it. I was going along with it. I was not an instigator there. Oh,

Stephen:

probably. So we do have to acknowledge that bill was not gay or trans. It was his psyche psyche that was broken and led him to believe in the power of women and that he could, you know, achieve that power. He literally got inside of them and because some people will say, Oh, it's problematic. He's giving trans people a bad rep. But lecturer is quick to say in back in the eighties, it was called. Transsexual instead of transgender So you've got in, I think, I think it is important to acknowledge that that and lector does say he's not that you'll, if you want to find him, look at the hospitals that have turned him down for the gender reassignment surgery. And that was definitely interesting because. For most of middle America, that's watching this movie. This is hitting a lot of topics that they've never, ever considered in their entire life between actual cannibalism or someone cutting off the skin of a woman and all of this. Like this was putting things front and center in front of people that they had never thought of had never seen before. And it was so popular among all those groups that were so popular all the time. But, and for it to win all those awards and to be embraced by such a large group of the population, I think, you know, for the topics that covered, it's pretty impressive.

Melissa:

It really is even today. You know, it's hard to think about all of those things in one movie and because it's a movie even still like, you know, after watching it more recently, it's like, Oh, could this actually happen? You know? Like, is, is this all even a possibility?

Steve:

Yes. And they tried to even make sure that the movie was shot to be pretty timeless to make sure because it is something that could happen at any point in time.

Stephen:

And absolutely, I absolutely agree with that. And we were talking and we heard in the clip Catherine Martin played by the brilliant Brooke Smith who was stuck down in the well, and she was the current victim of Buffalo bill. I love Brooke Smith. She is a fantastic actor. She was on Grey's anatomy for multiple seasons and she was in A favorite indie film of mine called series seven, the contenders, which is a bet, a reality show where your social security number is drawn and you're forced to move into this town and fight for your life against the other people that were drawn. And the only way to make it out of the competition is to win two seasons in a row. And she is the reigning champion having won the first season six. And so going into season seven, she's the favorite and she's pregnant. And what's amazing about all of this came out. The movie did before survivor and all of the, our reality show thing. So this writer created. So by our real survivor, before survivor ever came on the TV, I'll have to check

Steve:

that out. Yeah, it's interesting. I find it because in the movie or during the recording of it in real life, she was actually terrified of Buffalo bill and the actor, and she felt uncomfortable.

Stephen:

He seems like he would be super creepy, like very, very, I mean, as we were talking about, he was also the voice in joy ride with the Kern dickering candy crane, c'mon on to crane and the voice is still creepy. And for him to be Buffalo bill and the truck driver, and there's either he's really, really good at his job or he's super creepy and real.

Steve:

Yeah. But one of the thing that she did a lot down in that pit was scream. And she did also say though that no matter how scared she was of him, when she got out after all that spring, she felt better. And then when she

Stephen:

started, I couldn't imagine. And they do a really good job on the Clarice TV show with Catherine Martin's character, dealing with her PTSD because they're dealing with Clarice's PTSD from it. But Catherine was down in that hole and we know that he only would go after larger women. And so Catherine now one year later is thin because she doesn't ever want to be the big girl. I got a big girl that could be taken. The reason she's taken is because of her wait

Steve:

and like, you really need to hang in there for a couple of us. Cause, cause they revisited, I think it was like episode four or five recently that we watched where they had a dinner together and the whole like bringing my normal. Yeah,

Stephen:

she was, she wouldn't eat chicken and rice and things. She only had low fat yogurt and that's it. Oh, she would have, yeah. And like

Steve:

sitting there, like at a formal dining with her, just eating this non like non-flavored non-fat yogurt and just, it was handled very well with the way that the Currys was jumping to her. Defense because the mother was just coming off as a nightmare to me at least. But yeah, it's, it's very worth a watch. That's definitely a binge

Stephen:

as well. So in the movie, like Clarice is the one that actually figures where, and it's surprisingly somewhat by chance that she figures out where Buffalo bill is because the FBI thinks they've gotten him and she's just going to keep going around and finish answering or asking the questions and getting some answers. And she comes upon Buffalo bill and they're having a conversation. And it's a couple of the things that she, he says that starts clearing her Anne. And then she sees one of them offs, and then she's done and she knows what it is. And there's the climactic scene downstairs after she finds, Catherine says, you're fine. And Catherine's like, get me out of here. You bitch.

Steve:

I love her for that. I was like, so oftentimes in like whenever, like someone's like saved, they're like,

Stephen:

Oh, okay. And she's like, get me outta here. And so Clarice is off and Buffalo bill turns off the lights and Clarice is in the dark. There's no windows and bill has night vision goggles. And the thing that I love if this had been James Bond or someone that had been a FBI agent that had been in the field for awhile, they would have a different reaction because Clarice was still a trainee she's freaking out in the dark. You see her breathing, getting higher. You see her fumbling in front of her with her hand and he's calm because he can see he's coming right towards her. He's even still playing with her going after her hair and she's freaking out. But then. She, and he pulls out a gun and he pulls back the, she hears the click. She hears the click and her training immediately comes into play and no longer is she scared. She bends down, boom takes him out fires, fires, fires. And that is a really good scene of Clarice in general of determination. And it's just so

Steve:

well done. What do you think of the ending for Clarice and how it all ends

Melissa:

afterwards? Really well done, but I have some sort of like, no, she killed him because. At the end of the day, right. I want to like study his psyche and figure out why he was doing all of these things.

Steve:

Gotcha. If they had locked him up and had him coming back for a SQL about him being in the one in the

Stephen:

cage. But I don't think there's, I don't, I don't think he can teach them anything about the world. The way Dr. Lecter can open up people's eyes to understanding other people. I think the only thing bill could teach them was about him. Yeah. True thing I did love. And is that Catherine took precious the dog with her when she left and in Clarice the TV show, she still has precious a year

Steve:

later. Yes, no. And

Melissa:

interestingly Buffalo bill, that's like the only thing he's upset by the entire time. Right? Like he's almost crying for this dog. I

Steve:

understand. I would kill everyone in the world, but Ramey he's fine. He's under

Stephen:

me. Okay. I was going to say he was over here a second ago. Yeah. That was. Mr. Your dogs hurt real bad

Steve:

and I'd be like, okay, sorry. Y'all I won't kill you. I'll let you out of there. Well, I'll just give me a

Stephen:

precious and you know, Clarice graduates the Academy and, you know, hell a final exam. And it's, you know, she's, she's going to be able to get to do the things she wants to do with behavioral psych. And if things are going well, but then she gets a phone call. Yes,

Steve:

she do. If the lamb stuffed screaming

Stephen:

don't bother with the tray. So I won't be on

Steve:

long enough.

Stephen:

I have no plans to call on you. Clarice, the world's more interesting that you take care not to extend me the same courtesy, you know, I can't make that promise. I do wish we could chat longer, but I'm having an old friend for dinner. Bye. So that's one of the other famous lines. I'm having an old friend for dinner and people will quote that as well. And if you, for some reason, haven't seen this Dr. Chilton who was so awful to Lecter when he was there and curries and Clarice, but mainly like that was Dr. Lectors captor at the asylum. And, you know, I think if Chilton had treated him with respect and with dignity, when he was there, Chilton would have lived his life into old age, but because he broke decorum and didn't treat somebody how they deserve to be treated lector, hunted him down. And he had it coming. He had a zero problem with Dr. Electric killing Dr. Tillman

Steve:

at all. Exactly. What do you think of the ending in general molest?

Melissa:

I love the ending and I love that it ends on that final line without showing everything that happened. Like just him being on an Island somewhere and saying that he's having an old friend for dinner because it leaves it. So open-ended

Stephen:

my theater teacher in college looked like Anthony Hopkins, but about 20 years older than this movie. And like in conversation, we would always refer to him as Dr. Lecter. Instead, I can't, I can't remember what his real name he was, doctor something, but like, we all were like, looks like animal actor. And so like in class when he wasn't there, we would always just refer to him as Dr. Lecter. Creepy. Yeah. And whenever you called his house he screened all of his calls, which cause you know, you'd call professors and, but he screened all of his calls and he would always say yes, and if you need to reach me call and once my answer phone beeps begin talking, once I realize who it is, then I'll pick up and it's very perceptive, but okay. So what are your final thoughts darling? On the movie in general,

Steve:

I would say that it is one hell of a ride and it's influenced pop culture so much. It's going to be beyond thriller, Biff beyond horror, beyond action, beyond crime drama. It just is so much of everything. It's just great. It's a classic. It is certainly the final thoughts on the, yeah,

Melissa:

definitely a classic. And I don't know if truly it'll ever be out done.

Stephen:

Yeah. Oh, no. I mean, the performance is like we've said, Jody had a role that most likely would not have been award winning, but when you take the film as a whole, from the direction and her interactions with lector and everything, this film really is the sum of its parts. And the sum is fantastic and it's iconic and it's a classic and it's one that will endure.

Steve:

Yes. And you want to know what else is fantastic. And I Connick and will endure my life, us, us, and our listeners. Well, yes, yes. And so listeners, thank you for listening and tuning into this episode. Let us know what you think by emailing [email protected] You can

Stephen:

also get in touch with us on all the socials, whether it's Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook. Funny enough, it's still at happy life pod. We make it so easy for you to find

Steve:

us. Yes. That's H a P P Y L I F E P O D. And you

Stephen:

get the spelling award for the week. Thank

Steve:

you so much. I am so smart. S M R T. Yes. So with that and Melissa, thank you so much

Stephen:

for coming here, Melissa. This was great.

Melissa:

Well, from one of your favorite fans, fan favorites, however you want to say it. Thank you all for having me. Yes.

Steve:

The world is more interesting with you in it, and now

Stephen:

we're going to have a friend for dinner.

Steve:

All right. And until next time everyone stay happy.