A Lifetime of Happiness: Movies, TV, and Video Games

The Shining ft. Elaine Richardson

May 19, 2021 Steve Bennet-Martin, Stephen Martin-Bennet, Elaine Richardson Season 1 Episode 68
A Lifetime of Happiness: Movies, TV, and Video Games
The Shining ft. Elaine Richardson
Show Notes Transcript

The Steves invite Elaine Richardson to the Overlook Hotel to discuss the Shining! Just kidding- it's done virtually! 

Our Binge and Purge Reccomendations

  • The Circle (Netflix) - Binge #TeamChloe
  • Resident Evillage Village (PS4 and more)- Binge after 7!
  • The Mick (Hulu) - Binge

The Shining

  • Movie background
  • Jack's descent into madness
  • Kubrick's directing
  • Poor Shelley Duvall
  • The Shining in real life
  • Who is Johnny Carson?
  • The Overlook's inspiration
  • The Overlook's history
  • Differences between the book and the movie
  • The upcoming prequel series

E-mail us at [email protected] or join the conversation on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, all at happylifepod

Stay tuned next week for the sequel to The Shining, Doctor Sleep!

Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.

Support the show (http://www.patreon.com/happylifepod)
Steve:

Hello returning happies and new listeners. This is Steve Bennet-Martin, and

Stephen:

this is Stephen Martin-Bennett. And welcome to a lifetime of

Steve:

happiness. The podcast where we take you on our journey through some of the movies, TV shows, and other bits of pop culture that are helping to keep us happy while hopefully bring a smile to your face along the way.

Stephen:

And since all work and no play, make the Steve's doll boys today, we're going to be discussing the shining with my dear friend, Elaine Richardson. Welcome to the show, Elaine. Thank you. Hello, Steve. Hello? Well, like I've known you. Oh my gosh. I just realized that I think that I have literally known you for 17 years now. Wow. Yeah. And it was all back. Thanks to Ron and Mona wise. And Rondo's what restaurant on the West side of Cincinnati. And that was a lifetime ago, but I still remember you Jody Brady and I having so much fun Elena and I grew our friendship from there and we'd go out drinking together on the weekends. We'd take turns, going to a straight bar and over the Rhine or below zero for me. And then like, we'd go back to my house and we'd sit on my front porch and we'd have these in-depth life altering conversations. One where I, I, I'm almost sure we figured out how to achieve peace in the middle East, between Palestine and Israel. I just don't remember what it was right now.

Elaine:

If only

Stephen:

we could remember Elaine and I share a love of movies and we used to go see all of the Oscar nominated films together, and we'd have really in-depth conversations going back and forth about the movies. So whenever I said, you know, what's a movie that. You know, you've seen and you have some opinions on and the shining came up. It seemed like the perfect person to have with on our

Steve:

show. Yes. And why, why would you choose, or why did you pick the shining?

Elaine:

I love the shining. I have loved it since I was a kid. I think just the fact that it's a slow building, kind of psychological drama and that at least for me, I have a personal connection with it because my dad actually looks exactly like Jack Nicholson. True story. So that ups, the creep factor

Steve:

I can imagine.

Stephen:

Yes. Did your dad ever tell you that it was time to take your medicine?

Elaine:

No, but he has an equally. Maniacal grin. So he pulled that out every now and again.

Stephen:

Darlene, why do you like the signing? Well, I like the

Steve:

shining. I actually liked it more doing this research. I like it because it leads to the doctor sleep movie. And I really like that. Yeah. And by coming back and rewatching this with a critical eye, it's made me really like it. I like how much it's impacted pop culture with its phrases that I knew before I knew the movie. I still don't know who Johnny is, but I understand that's a callback to a time before me.

Stephen:

It's actually not a time before, you know, Johnny Carson was still on the air when you were alive. My darling, no know who he is. Johnny. So do you know who Jay Leno is? Yes. Okay. And you know how, because

Steve:

when I was going to the orthodontist, they say, I need to wear a chin strap at night or else I'd end up having Jay Leno chin. Okay.

Stephen:

So, and you know that Jimmy Fallon took over for Jay Leno on the tonight show Jay Leno took over for Johnny Carson. Oh. And whenever Johnny would come out of the, like at the beginning, whenever they're like in here's your host, like, blah, blah, blah.

Steve:

Would it be like this?

Stephen:

Wow, Johnny, it was a lot like that. But ed McMahon who most people know from the publishers clearing house he. Would actually go and he is Johnny, like really draw it out, but that's exactly where Jack Nicholson. Got it. Got it. Not as maniacal though on it. No ed McMahon would never be characterized as maniacal. I would. Okay.

Steve:

Well, before we get any further into this wonderful movie, we want to also give our listeners updates on what we've been bingeing and recommendations on whether they should binge it as well or purge it from their watch.

Stephen:

And so one of the ones that I admit that whenever I first heard the description of it before it started, I was like, this is a horrible idea. This is a trash show. I refuse to watch it. And you started watching it and it's called the circle and I love my trash shows and it's on Netflix. And for those that haven't seen it what it is is. People are sequestered in their own individual, really nice apartments. And it's a social media competition where it's not Facebook or Twitter. The social media is called the circle and you have your profile. And the thing that makes this really different is the contestants can either come on as themselves or come on as a catfish. And then you compete through the show with no one ever seeing you or hearing you until you've been kicked off. And there there's competitions, there's discussions and people try to get to know each other. And of course they're still somehow. Drama and arguments. Just like what social media creates. Especially

Steve:

season two was very drama filled. Season one was a good ride. But season two, I'm glad is when you turn tuned in, because we fell in love with

Stephen:

Chloe. Oh my gosh. Team Chloe forever. Yes.

Steve:

She's this British girl with like a Cockney accent. She's like Bella from my dad wrote a porno. Yes. And, but she's like a real life person. I love

Stephen:

her. Elena, have you seen the circle? I have not. Okay. So

Steve:

if you can tell, we would recommend a binge. Yes. Yes.

Stephen:

Like it's one of those things where you've got some time off over the next few weeks. I honestly say watch it. The host is fantastic. She's never really on, she just narrates and she throws shade at the contestants as well. Sassy hosts. And so it's a good time because you and I were, we went and saw the original catfish movie together. Didn't we? Yes, we did. And that was like, as soon as we saw that I went home and I deleted everyone off of social media, but I had never met face to face in person. That movie scared me to no end. Oh no. And

Steve:

Elena, have you been watching anything that you would recommend to our listeners?

Elaine:

I really like the mic. I thought a couple of years ago when it first came out, it's streaming on Hulu right now. And it stars Kaitlin Olson who also was in, it's always sunny in Philadelphia.

Stephen:

Oh, she's the really funny blonde that can pull her face in so many different like directions. Like she gives really good face.

Elaine:

Yes. And she's also really great at physical comedy. She gets hit by a car no less than five times throughout the first couple of days. So yeah, it's only two seasons. It was originally on Fox and it got canceled, but every episode makes me laugh out loud. So

Stephen:

I love those types of shows, even if they. You know, got canceled. That's one of the great things about streaming is you may not have watched it when it was on, but you can find it and discover it. Like we're currently watching Hannibal that was on NBC and it's on Netflix. So like it's new to us.

Elaine:

Right. And you just don't always have time to sit down every Thursday night and keep up with the entire series. But

Stephen:

streaming definitely for everyone that has such busy lives streaming, I think definitely helps the world out in that instance. And also if it weren't for streaming, my goodness. Could you imagine what the last year would have been like? No. Thank

Steve:

you.

Stephen:

And what else have you been bingeing? My darling, well

Steve:

recently on the PlayStation four, as well as the PlayStation five and other systems that I don't own, but I played on the PlayStation four resident evil village, also known as resident evil eight. It is a direct sequel to resinate evil seven, which came out a few years ago and was a return to its horror roots. And I found this one, definitely a binge worthy recommendation. It's a perfect blend of the horror from number seven is with the action from number four. And it was just really fun to play through it. I had a really good story I've given up on the plot making sense, but in terms of nonsense, this is some of the best nonsense that they've had in recent entries.

Stephen:

And I, the, so like when I watched some of the games that you play and I treat it like really long movies or TV shows for me and this one was fantastic, it was gorgeous. And. Steve knows that whenever he's playing a game or I'm playing a game that I will judge some of the graphics by their water effects and their lighting effects. And I have to say for anybody else that appreciates video game lighting and water resident evil, eight scores, very high it's super impressive. And I'm going to tell on both of us go for it. The video game has so many jump scares. Like it was. I, we haven't jumped or yelped that much at a horror movie. And I don't know how no, I

Steve:

know like whoever the there's like a puzzle and venture, like there, like, cause there's different puzzles throughout the game, Elaine. And one of them you're in this house and that you have a safe and above the safe, it says like the code is like, look out the window. And like, as you look out the window to line up the different, like six numbers throughout scenery and things painted on the side, like a werewolf zombie pops out and like right in your face, as you're looking at, I wasn't expecting it. Like I screamed so loud. Like I get whoever designed that the biggest middle finger ever. And, and, and then on top of that and Bennett Vento Ventas house, when they take all your items and you're being chased by like a creepy. Penis baby monster with like a vagina mouth, but like a penis head.

Stephen:

And it was honest to God. That's the best description of it was just

Steve:

terrifying. Like, I hate those. Like, I mean, I love it because it gives you that anxiety, but when any good character in a game is chasing you and like, you hear their footsteps behind you coming for you. But then this one looks like a little baby giggling, but then it's

Stephen:

like this and it looks like, you know, the slime from the eighties that you would get out of the 25 cent machines at the stores, but it was like Brown and shaped like a penis, but it flowed like that slime stuff. Yes. And then it cried like a baby. Yeah, it was, it was,

Steve:

yeah. The horror nightmare of fuel and a house filled with

Stephen:

creepy dolls.

Steve:

So yes. Yeah, they did. They did really well on that case.

Stephen:

Yeah. Like he was playing the creepy doll level right before we were going to bed. And I was like, thank you. That's the nightmare fuel I needed tonight. You're welcome. I love you. I'll

Steve:

see you in your nightmares.

Stephen:

So one thing we also ask our guests is what's making them happy this week. And I, well, if you don't have anything ready, Olivia, you think on it for a second, but the thing that's making me happy this week is we saw our movie in a movie theater.

Steve:

Yes we did. And it was amazing. Yes. There were movies, seats in chairs that we sat in and the lights went dark and we got to her client back and public place

Stephen:

screen the big screen. Gosh, it was so good. And so we saw spiral from the book of saw it was the. And kind of reboot spinoff is the best way to call it because it definitely is associated with the Saul series with the whole, I'd like to play a game and like traps and things like that. But it really was. Less focused on the traps than it was the mystery, which was kind of nice because it didn't at that point. It really wasn't. Okay. It's just another song, but B, because this didn't feel like just another song movie. Yeah,

Steve:

no, it definitely did feel like it was not saw. It definitely felt like something different. I'm still digesting on whether I would be, I would recommend it as a Bindra purge, which is why I didn't go in the section that made me happy seeing it. But

Stephen:

I, I think if you like the Saul movies, you should go see it. Like it.

Steve:

Yeah. What I think bothered me at first was like the first, like 10, 15 minutes, like building up character dialogue was very much like Chris rock, trying to fit in his comedy, in my opinion. And I don't like his comedy. Like I didn't like his character right away. And I know that part of it's cause he was like good Jayda D like guy in the middle of a divorce. And that plot doesn't really end up going anywhere throughout the movie. But a lot of it was like his type of humor that I don't really find funny. So it w once the body started dropping and I got back into the mystery, I was really in, but I was turned off at

Stephen:

first by that. Yeah, because there was a lot in the movie where Chris rock, wasn't trying to be funny. And I think that there was a point where the directors were like, okay, for the Chris rock fans, we need to add in the scene in the car where he's talking to his partner. And so that they're like, Oh yeah, this is definitely Chris rock. But for most of the movie. Chris rock was playing it straight. Yeah. There

Steve:

was no reason he needed to start off the movie by calling Forrest Gump the R word like that

Stephen:

immediately was that

Steve:

flashback scene. Yeah. Yeah. And that was like one of your first interactions with him and I'm like, Oh, okay, great. So this is a horrible person,

Stephen:

Chris rock. Yeah, that was, that was definitely,

Steve:

but it gets better from there. Yeah, I forgive it overall, but it definitely started, you know, it's not good. Starting a movie with a bad taste in your mouth.

Stephen:

And what's interesting is with most of the song movies, it was so over the top that the Gore and things never really bothered me something about the way they did the deaths in spiral. Yeah. It felt more raw and I winced or turned my head just want a special

Steve:

goodness. Yes. So do you, do you like those types of movies, Elaine, like the body or.

Elaine:

I love horror films saw is a little too Gore for me. Yeah. Not that I can't get into some of the gory films, but I'm much more of a creature horror film fan. I love movies like draws and Anaconda and a lot of the old scifi movies, like attack of the 50 foot woman and, you know so yeah, with the Gore, I have to really be into the story and, you know, just deal with the gory details. But I also love all the paranormals so

Steve:

yes, we love our supernaturals. Yeah. Now speaking of supernatural then, yeah. That's good too. The shining.

Stephen:

So the shining was at 1980, psychological horror cult classic based on Stephen King's 1977 book directed and produced by Stanley Kubrick and stars. Jack Nicholson is Jack Torrance. Shelley Duvall is Wendy Torrance

Steve:

as Danny and my favorite name ever of a human scat man, Crothers as Dick Holleran. And I just loved that as name, as Guttman Crothers, because that just should be the

Stephen:

name I'm I'm 99%. Sure. That is his stage name. Okay. Well, I still love that. It's awesome because if I would remember correctly, he was from a jazz age and that was the stage name he took when he was a performer.

Steve:

I guess that makes more sense. Now that I am DB describes this movie as a family heads to an isolated hotel for the winter where a sinister presence influences the father into violence, which while his psychic son sees horrific forebodings from both past and future.

Stephen:

You know what, that's not actually that bad of a description compared to what sometimes I am DB is known for.

Steve:

But as one of your favorite movies, how would you both like summarize or add onto that? You

Stephen:

can go first.

Elaine:

I think that pretty much sums it up. I mean, I might add a little bit extra about the hotel itself and the fact that the hotel becomes an entity. But yeah, I'd say, I mean, you know, for just a couple sentences, that is a good summary of the plot.

Stephen:

Yeah. And I agree with you that it makes it seem like Danny is the one seeing things and that it's not the hotel itself because the hotel is pretty much a character all on its own.

Elaine:

Yeah. And that continues then later in Dr. Sleep and it's really kind of the basis for, or the catalyst for, you know, what drives the story.

Steve:

Yes. And now for a movie that is now known as one of the most influential horror movies of all time, when it came out with its budget of $19 million, it only had a box office of $47 million. So that's not considered a real big success. Is

Stephen:

it babe? No. Even back then, it definitely wasn't and success, but I also don't think Stanley Kubrick was known for box office, like blasting. Horror films or films in general. He wasn't,

Steve:

he's known for mostly doing lesser known books that and turning them into movies. And so this was one of his bigger known books that he turned into a movie.

Stephen:

I think he has so much fame now, but back, like if he was around today, he would be an art house director type of thing. And like he created a pop culture sensation, but I don't think he knew that that's what he was doing actually. And I

Steve:

mean, it, it is now, you know, even though it wasn't at the time of huge hit, it's even been considered so important now that the United States national film registry by the library of Congress selected this for preservation because it's culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant to our culture, which is great.

Elaine:

Also he Stanley Kubrick became a lot more famous because of the film, because it sparked so many conspiracy theories particularly linking him to faking

Stephen:

the moon landing. I was going to say, because I had a friend growing up that her father, honest to goodness, and this was in the mid nineties, still believed that the moon landing was faked and that standard Stanley Kubrick directed it on a sound stage. Oh my

Steve:

goodness. So does one

Elaine:

of our previous

Steve:

guests remember? Oh, that's right.

Stephen:

That's right. Yeah. I don't. So that's

Steve:

very interesting. Yes, it certainly is. But he certainly got famous from this and that as well as, I mean, it was Jack Nicholson as big of a name.

Stephen:

Well, Jack Nicholson was already an Oscar winner at that point from. One flew over the Cuckoo's nest. And he was like he was a big damn deal. And even in 1980, like he, Jack Nicholson has become a cultural icon as well, even like into the nineties, whenever he had courtside seats for the Lakers. And he always had front row seats for the Oscars so that the host could make fun of him. And he was always ready for it. And in on it, like Jack Nicholson has always been larger than life. And his performance in this really shows, I would

Steve:

say, as Jack Torrance, he certainly was larger than life with his descent into madness. I mean, what did you think of his descent, Elaine?

Elaine:

I kind of go back and forth on whether he truly has the shine or not. I think most people, I don't consider him to necessarily you have the shine as his son does, but he is also the one that seems to be most effected by the hotel. And, you know, he's the one that ends up seeing a lot of the ghosts and. Listening to them as they encourage him to murder his family. So and it, it, it also seems like he has been struggling with reality for a very long time. Right. So he's a recovering alcoholic and has been fired from his teaching job, which is why they moved to the hotel. And there are lots of little hints, subtle references to his previous actions. And I mean his violent nature of course, but also the fact that he might have demons or, you know, see ghosts or have the shine.

Stephen:

Yeah. Now in the movie, I don't remember if they mention it, but do they. Say why he got fired from the school, because I know in the book they go over that he had a physical altercation with one of the students.

Elaine:

They don't really, I mean, they do mention the fact that he did not You know, leave on his own cord that he was fired, but he also plays it off as, Oh, this will just give him a good chance to pursue his real passion, his writing

Steve:

career. Yeah. And what's interesting is because, I mean, the character of Jack Torrance with, between the writing, as well as where Stephen King was at his point in his alcoholism at the time, from what I understand, you know, of his history, while now he's a fully recovered alcoholic. At that time, he was considering a self, a recovered alcoholic that only had a couple beers a day. And that was kind of where he was on his journey. And, you know, he wasn't involved in any sort of support groups or AAS or anything like that. So it was very much his version of what sobriety looked like, just bare knuckling it as Jack Torrens.

Elaine:

Right. And in the beginning, when the actually says that, Oh, he hasn't had a drink in five months, hasn't had a drop or something like that. And I mean, I think all around, we just have very unreliable narrators, you know, that's their perspective and it somewhat matches up, but there are always little details that don't necessarily

Stephen:

line up. So one of my issues with Jack Nicholson's performance in this is obviously whenever he goes fully bat shit, the hotel's got him crazy. He is brilliant. I have a problem in the first third of the movie. That he comes off as a fuck asshole. Yeah. Too smart and too smarmy and everything like the, the, I was like, you don't like your family. Yeah. The madness, the madness. It was too easy to happen where I feel like if he needed to dial back the Jack Nicholson, just a little bit so that there was, and I blame Kubrick on this because he's the director. He should have pulled back the performance or had him do it because Jack Nicholson has a wide range of performances he can do. And like, if anybody's seen Michael Keaton in Batman where Jack Nicholson was a joker, he goes the full range with that from like quiet moments to high. And I feel like this. If this was already at a five or a six and it needed his performance needed to start at maybe a two a I dunno, that was my big thing with this movie in his character.

Steve:

Well, in general, he's also S from what I understand, what Stanley Kubrick and the research I did with the movie, he's an extreme director to begin with. I mean, look at what he did to poor Shelley Duvall.

Elaine:

Yeah. I think that in the Guinness book of world records for the most takes for one

Stephen:

scene and

Steve:

thinking of that scene, that scene, which scene might be you ask, well, this one, I

Elaine:

said, I'm not going to hurt you. I'm just going to bash your brains. I'm going to bash him, right? The fuck in

Stephen:

hurts. Stop swinging the bat.

Elaine:

Put the bat down with it.

Stephen:

Give me the band, the band, the band.

Steve:

Give me the bat, babe.

Stephen:

So that, as Elaine said in the Guinness book of world records, I believe that it is in there for the most takes of any

Steve:

scene 127 times.

Stephen:

Can you, I mean, she was giving it her all at, through all of it. I couldn't imagine how. Emotionally numb and raw. I would be by the end of having to do that over and over again, and her performance having to be so high and even Jack Nicholson, like him having to be keyed up that many times, but then also is it because of the way they filmed it, they did it. So that one, a camera like Jack was walking up the steps toward the camera. Was it just Wendy's portion where a camera was going up the steps with her, that she had to film that many times.

Elaine:

Interesting. I mean, I knew Angelica, Houston, who, I don't know. Her and Jack Nicholson were married at the time, but she said that the film really affected their relationship because Jack Nicholson would come home and just immediately go to bed and be completely worn out from doing so many takes throughout the day.

Stephen:

And what I found, I, I already felt for Shelley Deval, like going through this and that many takes. But then when I also found out that Kubrick told the people on the set to not be as kind to Shelly, to like actually speak down to her and tell her nobody is

Steve:

I'll let her know what's going to happen or what's going on and leaving her out of scenes and updates. And yes, and to cite our sources. This was from the vocal media.com had an article called the real horror of the shining, the story of Shelley Duvall. And it was written by Tom Chapman. Yeah. So thank you for that.

Stephen:

And even the making of the shining documentary that is on the Blu-ray they even have Kubrick there pushing her and telling her, Hey, nobody's supporting you right now. Nobody's got your back with this quit making this out to be poor little Shelly, like he's on camera telling her that. And it came out of nowhere. So you could see that he was trying to make Shelley feel like he wanted windy to feel. And

Steve:

she would cry up to the, in the article, it said she'd cry for 10, 12 hours a day and eventually ran out of tears. So she had to keep water bottles because she was being dehydrated from crying so much.

Elaine:

I don't think this is the only movie either where Kubrick is known for really pushing his actors to the brink of madness themselves.

Stephen:

Yes.

Steve:

So I know she's not doing the best she's out of acting. So I wish her the very best though, in her recovery or her

Stephen:

health, she actually other, like, I think she has some other mental health issues. And, but I read this really great in-depth piece recently about Shelly Deval, where she's living in a small town in Texas and she's living a very quiet life. The people there just Shelly, and like, she seems happy and content there. So I'm glad she's

Steve:

doing better, but I mean, her, her, it was interesting. Some of the choices that they made with her character cause she did the horror. Well in some parts, like when she was screaming in the bathroom, I completely bought it. And with the bat was also awesome, but then her run her little like flailing arm run. Yeah. It's just like every, every queer stereotype of a little queer boy

Stephen:

running, or if you've ever seen the episode of friends where Phoebe runs in the park. Yeah.

Steve:

It just, that that was a direction that he certainly took her in. Yeah.

Stephen:

And

Elaine:

well, and I think it's to make her look ridiculous as a woman, you know, which is very effective. But I also think Shelly kind of gets a bad rep throughout. Or when the, I should say the character as like a meek, you know, very unassuming woman who does whatever her husband tells her. I think there's actually quite a few instances where. As an audience member, we can see her. She really is on edge the entire time. So she has to be aware of her husband's potential for

Stephen:

violence. Absolutely. I think that she starts the movie on edge. And even when she's talking to the doctor after Danny's whole thing in the mirror where she finds him passed out in the bathroom and they bring the doctor in and she's doing the I'm. Okay. You're okay. We're okay. Thing with the doctor that that's her coping mechanism, but she hasn't not been on edge. For probably years with his drinking. Right.

Elaine:

And I mean, she's changed smoking like crazy and she is carrying a bat around with her. Well, I mean, he understands what kind of situation she might be putting herself

Stephen:

in. I love that. One of the biggest memes that has ever shared about this movie is the scene where she's at the table near the beginning and she's smoking. And the Ash on her cigarette is like 16 feet long. Yeah. It was

Steve:

very funny. Now in terms of both of their parenting styles, neither one's going to win parent of the world with a little Danny Holleran is not Danny Holleran Danny

Stephen:

Torrance. I think that she does as good of a job as you know, A downtrodden eighties housewife is expected to do because she's fast. She's doing her best to like tank in the banger, say she is watching cartoons with him. She's making sure that he's fed. Even though, and I don't know how, I mean, now we can like with psychology things, we can look back on it now with something else, but she plays into the thing with the person that lives, that talks through his finger. And that, you know, she'll talk to him at the kitchen table and things. So, you know, she's Tony

Elaine:

imaginary friend that lives in his mouth on

Stephen:

his

Steve:

stomach. And I was going to say, I mean, nowadays parents, like if your kid tells you this cliff, like, I want you to just think of what you would think of this was your kid saying this to you,

Stephen:

sleep. And he shows me things that when I wake up, I can't remember.

Steve:

I mean, I would be taking that little demon baster to the nearest Exorcist or a psych doctor to get an medicated right away, which is interesting enough to get into it later on that like in doctor slate that that's kind of why the shine dies over time is because people become medicated and they medicate the shine away. And yeah,

Stephen:

I mean, all the kids today that are on ADHD medication, maybe they all just have the shine and we're destroying an entire generation of telepaths. Yeah.

Steve:

But that's for next week.

Stephen:

That's for next week. But yes, children are creepy. He, and he's like no offense to the child. It's not a great performance. And a lot of well to say he didn't know he was in a horror movie. Well, he didn't. And you can see that. And they've said that because, you know, God. I mean, I wouldn't want my child to be that young and be in this movie, knowing what it's about. And so he was told it was a different thing entirely. And when Kubrick was directing him, he would tell him, you know, be scared and things like that. Cause there was the scene where Danny was running the hide in the kitchen area and in the making of you see like Denny's running down the hallway and Kubrick's yelling, run, run, run, run. Okay. Look behind you. You're afraid. You're afraid to look behind you run. Okay. Steve, the door, see the door. Okay. You've seen the door now you see that, you know, crawl in fast, close it, close it you're afraid. And so obviously he knows, thank goodness that

Steve:

kids are stupid because I mean, obviously you're in a horror movie at that point. Moron. Yeah.

Elaine:

And, and I just wonder with all the shots where. I'm sure. Kubrick said like now, you know, book your eyes out, like steer really big into something and murder backpacks. Yeah. And that's a family drama.

Stephen:

Okay. Yeah. Lay on the ground and convulse and the something that was really cute with the kid that obviously he wasn't too affected by it. Because in the making of it, they're like, you know, I'm hoping that my mom and dad buy me something I, whenever it was when I was reading it, I read it as Redrum, like to drum again and cause I hadn't seen the movie and then I dropped the book and it laid open and or I put the book down and it was open. And then when I came back to it I came back from an angle where it was upside down and somehow upside down is how I solve it. It said murder. And it was kind of like in the middle of gone girl. Yeah. It was that kind of reaction where I was like, and so that was a big deal.

Elaine:

Well, I think Danny was the one that actually came up with that creepy voice, which I think that's why he got cast as the child, because

Steve:

yeah, red rum. Right.

Elaine:

So I think he, you know, just instinctively had that creepy, you know, crackly voice going and yeah, I have to say that part was very effective.

Steve:

Yeah, certainly

Stephen:

was no Dick Holleran is the chef at the overlook hotel and played by Scott Mann Crothers. And we meet him at the beginning and with the money I made from this. And I'm like, what do you think you'll make? And he goes, I don't know, like five or $10, but maybe 500 maybe. And I'm like, that's really adorable that you would have been okay with five or $10 for all the work you were doing. I'm glad he has agents. And, but he, they did a good job with finding a very creepy child because no other child could probably deliver. This line,

Steve:

and then this is as she's seeing in the mirror murder.

Stephen:

And so whenever I was reading the book the first time and I was. Goodness like 13 or 14, something like that. And he immediately senses that Danny has the shine and he talks to Danny. About it and tells him that, you know, it's just pictures in a book, the things in the hotel, or just pictures in a book. And as long as you don't pay any attention to them, they're fine. And he kind of, and he says, but if anything happens, you think real hard and I'll come running. And their scenes are some of my favorite just in the beginning because his performance was so sincere. And so for this movie and

Elaine:

creepy, when he says, don't go into room two 37, like you don't go in there. I mean, that was, I think the best piece of parenting throughout the entire film,

Steve:

I certainly was. Cause I mean, that comes on the heels of him trying to explain, you know, about the shine and how the overlook even has shine itself. But the shine was just, it was interesting the way that he describes it here.

Stephen:

I can remember when I was a little boy, my grandmother, and I could hold a conversation entirely without ever opening our mouth. She called it shiny in front of long time. I thought it was just the two of us that had the shine to us. Just like you probably thought he was the only one, but there are other folk through mostly they don't know it or don't believe it. So like, I think that the most realistic performance in the whole movie is by him.

Steve:

Yes. Correct. And do you think that the shine is real? That's some people have a shine of

Stephen:

sorts. Oh, absolutely. I, 100% feel that there are some people that have. That extra sensory perception that they can tell when, you know, somebody they care about something is going on or you know, to be able to feel like they knew exactly what was on your mind, that type of thing. I think there are people out there that have that a bit. What about you, Elaine?

Elaine:

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'm not actually a big believer in ghosts or, you know, spirits, but I do believe that some people at certain times of their lives depending on what else is going on, have, you know, some sixth sense or something about maybe something impending that is going to cause pain or, you know, something bad is going to happen. And then, I mean, who am I to say? I don't know. Maybe there are really good all over the place and I just don't have it

Stephen:

say, I fully believe that there are ghosts all over the place from the two that were in my house in Cincinnati to like different things like My friend, Samantha and I went on this ghost hunt in Cincy to an abandoned re Catholic rectory in up on the West side. Sorry,

Steve:

I just love the word rector.

Elaine:

sorry. Why do you think Cincinnati is a very haunted place? There's a lot of history here and yeah, there's more than a few places that claim to be haunted.

Steve:

You know, where else

is

Stephen:

haunted? My guess is probably the overlook hotel. That's

Steve:

very, very

Stephen:

haunted. It is. And, but it was based on a real hotel called the Stanley hotel, I

Steve:

believe. Yes. Yes it is. And during in 1974, during a brief residency in Boulder, Colorado, Stephen King and his wife, Tabitha spent one night at the Stanley hotel and it was right at the end of season, right before they were kind of shutting down. So it was very much this experience of being the only people in the hotel. And he said that that kind of creepy experience definitely by the end of that stay, he had the plot already kind of outlined in his head.

Stephen:

Okay. I want to pause for one second and talk about Stephen King himself. And because you mentioned Tabitha and it brought up something, you know, sometimes when people are doing articles on Stephen King, there'll be like, and he lives in Maine or Sarasota, Florida with his wife, Tabitha. And he'll always go back and say, Can you please change that. And so that it says you can still say wife or it's a, or he lives with novelist Tabba King. Like he wants her to be acknowledged as more than just his wife. And I love that about him. Yes. Well,

Steve:

I guess I didn't realize that she was a novelist as well. So he has a whole family of novelists did

Stephen:

one as well that I liked and yeah, his son and his son went by a pen name so that he didn't play on his dad's notoriety. Yes.

Steve:

Well, kudos fellow local Suncoast in Stephen King.

Stephen:

But back to the overlook hotel, you like, they say that the hotel itself shines. Is that true? Yes. Let's

Steve:

hear Dick tell us about, well, some

Stephen:

places are like people, some shine and some don't, I guess you could say the overlook hotel here has something about this light shine.

Elaine:

It's about to lie

Stephen:

when something happens, like leave a trace of itself. Like if someone burns, well, maybe things that happen, leave other kinds of traces, not things that anyone can notice, but things that people can see. So, I mean, I love that the hotel itself is a character because that makes it seem more real. And I do love that as the movie continues, even Wendy, who is never talked about having the shine begin as the hotel becomes more powerful as it feeds off of Danny, she can start seeing the things as well. Yes. She's

Steve:

like she can see everything, but who are some of your favorite ghosts in the overlook? Elaine?

Elaine:

Well, the woman and two 37 is extremely creepy. And

Steve:

she was one of my first naked ladies. I think that's part of why I'm gay.

Elaine:

That would turn me off. Right. But yeah, I also, I really love the bartender and me how formal. And I feel like he should've really been in a David Lynch movie and he probably was, I don't know. But I mean, I don't think he blinks the entire time. He's on camera,

Stephen:

so good with the conversation that he has with Jack and the, you know, your money's no good here and the different things that like. The, just the interaction between the two of them. They have great chemistry. They do, and his performance is so utterly creepy. And even the, like the little glimpses you see of like the guy in the dog suit and, or giving one to the hotel owner,

Steve:

I don't understand how he did it with the mask on

Stephen:

it's ours. I guess that's a different podcast. Ours is not to question why ours is about to do and die. And then obviously the most famous of all of the ghosts in the hotel would be and there we have why twins are creepy.

Steve:

Yes. And I love that, like near the end, as the music's rising, like you're seeing there like splashes between them in the hallway, holding hands and them being like slaughtered with an ax in the hallway, like dead bodies. And it's just was so shocking.

Stephen:

Yeah.

Elaine:

I think that's one of the best montage scenes in all of film. Just the pace of it as they the camera. Goes between the, you know, sisters in the hallway and then Danny's face and it keeps getting closer and closer to Danny's face and his eyes keep getting wider and wider. And then, you know, the clips of them murdered and blood all over the walls and an Axe lane there or so short, but really effective.

Stephen:

Yes. And back to how Danny didn't know he was in a horror movie, his scenes were filmed just by himself on the big way

Steve:

that I would have figured he wasn't looking at the dead body girls being like, pretend

Elaine:

you're just scared for no

Steve:

reason. Everything's cool,

Stephen:

but the twins are, and, and once you watch it enough, they really aren't twins. They're

Elaine:

not, I think they're supposed to be eight

Stephen:

and 10 and, but everybody just refers to them as the creepy twins, but they don't look anything.

Steve:

And the book aren't, I think it's mentioned that they're sisters and they're just dressed identically and styled identically like twins here, but yes, those are some of the favorite ghosts, but one of the other favorite memorable aspects of the hotel that you loved, especially was the heads made throughout.

Stephen:

I do enjoy the hedge maze that they do with this. I think I've always enjoyed mazes and hedge mazes whenever we were growing up. And we went to colonial Williamsburg. There's a giant hedge maze at the governor's mansion in colonial Williamsburg. And it's a lot of fun. So I would have loved to have done that one, especially one that was that large. And the way that they do this, that, you know, it's a good show me, don't tell me that the director does where he shows Danny and windy learning the maze. I got at a time while Jack is writing and you know, they're living their lives in the hotel, but Dan, so it makes sense later when Danny's running from Jack through the snow covered maze, that Danny knows where he's going and Jack has zero idea. Yeah. So that was a good direction thing that they did.

Elaine:

Well, I also think in the beginning scenes where they have the helicopter big, long shots as they're driving up the mountain and stuff. And then, you know, as you get to the hotel and you see this aerial view of it, the maze is

Stephen:

not in that. It is not because it wasn't there.

Right.

Elaine:

And you know, I think that really adds to the disorientation you feel when you watch the film, just like when Danny's on his tray, sickle and he takes somehow four rates and then a left and then a raid again, and he ends up in the same place he started. It's just, it makes no sense, but it's meant to really disorient you and, you know, add to, again, like the creepy nature of the hotel itself that you can just imagine. You know, different spaces or different directions through the maze and end up in a completely different place than you thought you were going.

Steve:

Yeah. And now as much as all of these ghosts exist because of the horrific deaths or the things that they encountered, they're part of the reason why they credit the location itself to be so haunted is because it's, again, one of Stephen King's favorite tropes, especially back then it was on an ancient native American burial site,

Stephen:

which at that point in time was huge. I mean, Poltergeist. Yeah.

Steve:

Anything supernatural was just, it was the native Americans.

Stephen:

Right. And like, I mean, I get it. I, if you let's say that somebody decided to build A whole condo complex on top of Arlington cemetery. Think of all the military ghosts that would be haunting your condo complex forever.

Elaine:

Yes. PTSD.

Steve:

It's just interesting. Cause you never hear horror stories or things written where like that happened half as much as you hear a blamed on the poor native Americans. Well, I

Stephen:

mean that's because we're already stealing the land from the native Americans. So it makes sense that like obviously we stole their land, we stole their burial site and we built a hotel or something on it. I mean, even in recent things with the whole pipeline that this is like real life, the pipeline they were building, the native Americans were like, Hey, that's going to go through a burial site. We, you wouldn't ever dig up one of your cemeteries to put a pipeline. Why is it different for us? So like it's still happening that we're doing. It's not great.

Elaine:

And I think that. In the film Kubrick alludes to this constantly. I mean, there are many examples of native American art all over the walls throughout the hotel, even in the storage rooms. They have the Calumet cans, which I guess he spent hours and hours placing so that they would all line up in just the right way. So yeah, I do think that that's a theme that he uses constantly and it also shows up in Stephen King's work all the time. I

Stephen:

mean, yeah. And the hotel ghost themselves in the book have a much bigger story. Like it let's say that you were just watching the movie itself and you saw some of the ghosts. And you didn't know there, things like we know that the sisters were killed by Grady, but the woman in two 37 or the dog guy and who we learn as the owner of the hotel, what are some backstories that you would say of how those people got there?

Elaine:

Well, the woman in two 37 seriously is, I mean, very sexualized. And so also the fact that she's in a bathtub and we see that her face is kind of swollen a little bit. And this is revisited later throughout, not just the scene where Jack Nicholson thinks it's his super lucky day. You know, in the film, they don't really explain any of that other than the Grady's, but we don't even see the wife of Mr. Grady either. Do we? We don't, I don't remember seeing that in the film. So yeah, I mean, I think You know, at least the woman in two 37 is meant to be some kind of

Steve:

sexual demon. Now I think that what we'll be able to do though, is we'll be in the next couple of years, getting to know a lot of their backstories. If you have HBO, max, because they're making a spin-off or a prequel series, the overlook talking about the history of the hotel.

Stephen:

I I'm super excited for that.

Steve:

We subscribed

Stephen:

now the ending of the movie, like we see that there was the Jack was coming to the bathroom, Wendy and Danny were in there. She gets Danny out the window. She can't get away. Jack tries to get in breaks the door with the ax, but still can't fully get into the bathroom. And then he decides. To chase after Danny during this part and Danny's outside in the snow and he runs towards the maze, which is the we, as we talked about, Danny knows his way through. And then Danny kind of backtracks by stepping back in his own footprints and hides. And because his dad was just following his footsteps, he continues on without realizing that he had stepped over the footsteps and then he's lost and he doesn't know where to go. Danny finds his way back out, finds windy. They take the Uttar thingy, the giant thing that Dick Holleran brought with him, the second snow snowcat, because Jack had destroyed the one for the hotel and poor Dick hollerin. Goes all the way from St. Pete, Florida to Colorado to save them is in the hotel for 30 seconds before Jack puts an accident is back like so sad, so sad. And if I remember correctly, he lives in the movie in the book or in the

Steve:

book. Yes, he does. That was one thing that was shocking to me, as well as, I mean, just the, when the ending happened and it's just, he's just frozen the next morning. Just I was shocked because I was waiting for something to happen in the furnace. Yeah.

Stephen:

That you would have thought that the boiler would have gone over because that's what

Steve:

happens in the book read

Stephen:

first. So you have the ending where he freezes and he becomes part of the hotel and the hotel lives. But then in the book you know, the whole reason Jack was supposed to be there. What, and, you know, you turn on the, you heat different parts of the hotel on a rotating schedule and you watch out for the boiler, but as his madness develops in the book, he stops checking on the boiler. And it's interesting in the movie, Wendy takes over working on the boiler. You see her down there with the little instruction book and checking on things. So I thought that was funny, but in the book he doesn't do it. And the big thing is Danny's all like, it's what you forgot. And Danny and windy escape with holler and who made it there. And Jack goes back in. And the hotel

Steve:

blows up. Yes. And so it's, the endings were very different, but I was especially expecting the one ending having the different ending was very shocking. But like Elaine, did you read the book before you saw the movie or which came first for you?

Elaine:

No, I saw the movie before. I ended up reading the book sometime in high school, so that's, you know, a while ago, but from what I remember I thought that in the end, in the book, Jack kind of redeemed himself, that your kind of take on it too. I mean, he somehow smacked out of it a little bit and an order to save his family. Then he blows up the hotel. Yep.

Stephen:

Danny gets through to him with enough that he goes down there and, and I may be wrong. And. Like he even sets it so that like it'll really

Steve:

blow and destroy everything, but yes. What did you think of the ending of the movie?

Elaine:

I really liked it a little bit better as far as a horror film. And I think it went along with the rest of the story. I hate it. Of course, when Halleran gets killed, gets two words in and then, you know, it's over. But I think throughout part of the scariest thing of the movie is that Jack keeps saying he would never lay a hand on his son. He would never hurt a son. He would never do any of this. In the end. That's what he's doing the entire time. It's just kind of stalking his own son and planning on murdering him. So the fact that he kind of, I don't know, I guess is not validated in the end or doesn't come to his senses in the film.

Stephen:

No, he's

Steve:

the villain here. He dies a villain. Yeah. Right.

Elaine:

And it also, you know, leaves the story open then that the hotel's still lives on and we get more Dr. Sleep or,

Stephen:

you know, it, that's the interesting thing that they had and we'll get to that next week that they had to change the doctor sleep movie. Was that the hotel still existed? Yes, it

Steve:

certainly does.

Stephen:

Windy in the book is a blonde bombshell waspy wife who like never actually forgives Jack for what he did. And her mother had always been pressuring her to like, stay like Jack was, yeah, he was never good enough. And so windy. And the book was much more of an on par sparring partner with Jack compared to what they did here. So that was always interesting. And then anybody that remembers the nineties, ABC was definitely in the Stephen King business with their mini series from it and the stand, and then the shining with this. And a lot of people didn't care for the, a the mini series on ABC. For someone who had recently read the book, I was like, Oh, this is how I expected it to be. And Rebecca de Mornay, as that version of windy Torrens, I loved, did you ever see the mini series? I've never seen them

Elaine:

any theories. And I mean, now that we're talking about it, I'm definitely gonna have to look it up or, you know, find it somewhere. But I, I guess just always thought of the shining is kind of the pinnacle, you know, for film. So I didn't a different

Steve:

version I was going to say, and you're comparing the two, it's going to be apples and

Stephen:

oranges. I made the mistake and I learned it quick with Stephen King things back then I read the book and then immediately went out and rented this version of the movie. And I sat there and I fully admit. I was mad and hated it. And it took probably six or seven years before I watched it again. And I was like, okay, taking it as itself. It's a good movie.

Elaine:

Right. I think, you know, When books are turned into films or even the other way around, which has happened a few times you know, you just, you have to take it for what it is. I think the shining as a film is brilliant. I think every shot in it is completely amazing that it's, you know, edited and pieced together in a way that really leaves you with a lasting impression and with the book You know, you could say that as well, but it's just a very different experience and directors have to take their artistic liberties in order to get their vision across. And like, we'll talk about next week, but you know, Dr. Sleep then has some issues with, does it go with the book? Does it follow the movie or, you know,

Steve:

a little bit of both. Yes,

Stephen:

correct. Yes. I agree this film. I can now look back on it as a separate entity and I love it. I think it's fascinating. All the stories and things that now have come out of this little $19 million film that has left such a Mark on filmmaking and pop culture. And this is a movie that everybody should see. And I think you should look at it with a critical eye to see all the things that Stanley Kubrick was trying to do and all the little nuances of performances and the things that are put into each of the scenes that are there for a reason. And that's the thing with Kubrick films, nothing is there by chance, every shot, every angle is on purpose.

Elaine:

Yeah. And I think that even if you're not a fan of horror that you know, this film does kind of transcend, I guess, the genre that, you know, you can look at it in many different ways and that it really is just a brilliant

Stephen:

film. Yes. What about you darling? Final thoughts?

Steve:

Well, I agree. It was a great movie and I'm excited to talk more about what this means for the sequel next week.

Stephen:

Yes. And until next week, where can people find us?

Steve:

They can find us via [email protected]

Stephen:

or they can look on all the socials, whether that is Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter, all at happy life. Pod H a P P Y L I F E P O D and lane. Thank you so much for joining us, everyone. Elaine, we'll be back next week as we discussed Dr. Sleep, but until then everyone stay happy.