A Lifetime of Happiness

Doctor Sleep ft. Elaine Richardson

May 26, 2021 Steve Bennet-Martin, Stephen Martin-Bennet Season 1 Episode 69
A Lifetime of Happiness
Doctor Sleep ft. Elaine Richardson
Chapters
A Lifetime of Happiness
Doctor Sleep ft. Elaine Richardson
May 26, 2021 Season 1 Episode 69
Steve Bennet-Martin, Stephen Martin-Bennet

The Steves return to the Overlook Hotel to discuss Doctor Sleep, the 2013 sequel to The Shining. 

Binge Recommendations:

  • Sex for Sale: The Untold Story (Hulu / A&E)
  • Mare of Easttown (HBO)
  • The Outer Worlds (Switch and more)

Doctor Sleep Discussion:

  • Movie background
  • Previously On: The Shining
  • Dan Torrance's struggle wih alcohol
  • Sherry McCamley's She's Crazy play
  • Danny as a mentor
  • Abra's childhood compared to Danny's
  • Rose the Hat as an antagonist
  • Rebecca Ferguson as brilliance
  • The shocking deaths in the movie
  • Returning to the Overlook Hotel
  • The ending in the book
  • The ending in the movie

Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.

Support the show (http://www.patreon.com/happylifepod)

Show Notes Transcript

The Steves return to the Overlook Hotel to discuss Doctor Sleep, the 2013 sequel to The Shining. 

Binge Recommendations:

  • Sex for Sale: The Untold Story (Hulu / A&E)
  • Mare of Easttown (HBO)
  • The Outer Worlds (Switch and more)

Doctor Sleep Discussion:

  • Movie background
  • Previously On: The Shining
  • Dan Torrance's struggle wih alcohol
  • Sherry McCamley's She's Crazy play
  • Danny as a mentor
  • Abra's childhood compared to Danny's
  • Rose the Hat as an antagonist
  • Rebecca Ferguson as brilliance
  • The shocking deaths in the movie
  • Returning to the Overlook Hotel
  • The ending in the book
  • The ending in the movie

Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.

Support the show (http://www.patreon.com/happylifepod)

Steve:

Hello, returning happies and new listeners. This is

Stephen:

Steve Bennet- Martin, and this is Stephen Martin Bennet. And welcome to a lifetime of happiness.

Steve:

The podcast where we take you on our journey through some of the movies, television shows, and other bits of pop culture that are helping to keep us happy while hopefully bring a smile to your face along the way.

Stephen:

And today we're taking a trip back to the overlook hotel with rose the hat, as we discuss Dr. Sleep with my dear friend, Elaine Richardson. Welcome back to the show, Elaine. Thank you.

Steve:

And long time. No talk.

Stephen:

Before we get into all of it. The reasons why we like this movie, darling, what's been making you happy this week.

Steve:

I would say that recently I found a new station on Spotify. You know, that I've been bingeing, a lot of tank and the bangers recently, we

Stephen:

do love tank in the bangers and it

Steve:

recommended a playlist called Allo. And it's the whole idea of it's aloe for your ears instead of for your skin. And it's like smooth, easy listening, but it's like chill, RMB, like a mix of spoken word. And yeah, it's a really cool playlist. So it's introducing me to a whole bunch of different new artists. I normally wouldn't have found. Definitely not top 40 stuff, but new stuff and fresh stuff.

Stephen:

So I like it. That sounds fantastic. Elaine, is there anything that's been making you happy this week?

Elaine:

The Cicada swarm that is impending in Cincinnati is pretty fun. Full-blown which it's not yet. So people are having fun, making a Cicada designs, I'm cookies and cakes and all kinds of stuff. And they'll probably start ending up actually fried on pizza so that that's a delicacy I

Steve:

need, right? Yeah. Well, our friend Brianne would love is if you send us a bag of them so she can bring them

Stephen:

for her nails. Oh yeah. She would take the wings and get them and put into the enamel on her nails. I remember that was my second summer in Cincinnati and my first summer working at Rondo's and the cicadas. We're crazy in Cincinnati. And didn't like the

Steve:

movie, the birds, but with cicadas, that's

Stephen:

what it felt like in some areas of town, like the one time that one flew into my hair and I didn't realize it until I was driving down the road and then it starts making this noise in my hair as I'm driving it. And the good thing you're alive still. Yes, I agree. And what is the I'm blanking right now? The convenience store that also sells ice cream. And UTF, thank you, United dairy farmers. So they were selling Cicada cookies at UTF that summer

Steve:

people

Elaine:

get pretty creative around here. Again, it's not full blast. The end. It gets a little gnarly with, you know, Shell's coffee and under your feet, wherever you walk,

Stephen:

but they're always on like stone buildings and things you have to like pry the dead shells

Steve:

that doesn't make me happy. Happy. My love.

Stephen:

It was actually just this morning, you introduced me to dirty chai lattes and

Steve:

you had to one up me and make it better than the one that I have at work. So,

Stephen:

I love chai and I love lattes. Yup. And so have you ever had a dirty chai latte line? No, I don't. What's the dirty part of it. So you take a chai. And then you put in two to three shots of espresso and then like the frothy milk for the latte. So you've got your tie and coffee and then the milk and it's sweet and spicy. And so

Elaine:

that sounds like it's my favorite

Stephen:

drink. I'll send you the recipe because preparation involved, but it is a lot easier than I thought and definitely, definitely worth it. All right. So

Steve:

speaking of and things that might be worth it or not, we have our binge and purchase

Stephen:

section. So it looks like this week that we have all things that we want people to binge and nothing they should purge from their lives.

Steve:

Yes. That's another positive week of happiness for all. Especially I learned and became fascinated with the documentary on Hulu, but it was originally on a and E called a sex for sale. The untold story. Do tell it, well, it's all about the sex work industry and it's a behind the it's like interviewing about five, I would say five to six individuals who work in various forms of the sex work industry that are considered untraditional. Typically when you hear of sex work, you think of, you know, prostitution you know, like you would see in like the movies and TV and things like that. But this one that they had one that was like all via cam where she never meets anyone. And she does it at home with her husband and they have one that specializes in lactating and they had a guy. Yes. Yes,

Stephen:

lactate in that one, it took a second to register and I was like, wait a minute. You didn't just actually say that. Yeah,

Steve:

you must've missed it at

Stephen:

that point, miss that I must have been at work.

Steve:

Yeah. He, Steven was wow. It was on my morning off and I was watching it while Steven left for work. So we got to see some of it. Like you saw Troy that the male gigolo whose mom was like his mama ger, like helping him pick out, you know, sexy pictures of him for his male escort

Stephen:

dates. And she would respond in ways. She's like, oh yeah, that's the money one, honey. And I was like, at the end. He bought her a house. Well, great, but we

Steve:

can live in it together. It's really creepy, but it's really

Stephen:

cute too. Well, I do remember one great thing about it is that it was a documentary that was done by Elizabeth Vargas from ABC news, who I absolutely,

Steve:

she is awesome. And she's my new interview, like model role model that I want to like watch other things that she does because she did it

Stephen:

extremely well. So what, where did you binge that again? So

Steve:

it definitely anyone who's interested in learning more about the sex industry. It is very eye opening. It is more than you would think. It's billions and billions and billions of dollars that most of America I don't think knows anything about. So it's definitely worth the hour and a half of fascination. I was like hooting and hollering. Are these people getting theirs? If you work in sales, especially watch it. Cause these people can like, I mean, they're selling themselves, but they have great sales

Stephen:

that I like. The part I saw was fascinating, but we'll watch it again. Okay. Elaine, what about you? Have you been bingeing? Anything you've enjoyed? I've been

Steve:

bingeing

Elaine:

mayor of east town on HBO stirring, Kate Winslet. And it is about a couple murders and small town, Pennsylvania. And it's only, it's a limited series. It's only seven episodes and the sixth one comes out today.

Stephen:

I think Sunday. Now, whenever you're saying that, are you saying it as the word is the person who runs the town or as in an equine type of animal? Is it mayor or mayor?

Elaine:

It's her name? Oh, her name is there is actually played by Kate Winslet, but it is spelled M a R

Stephen:

E. Okay. So that's, I was wondering where the name came from. Okay. So that's interesting. And we will add the, in that, so that's on HBO. So anybody that has HBO, max or HBO should check that out. Yeah. And

Elaine:

she pulls off a really interesting accent. I have to say. I love Kate Winslet. I think she is a great actress. I'm a little unsure of her accent, but it might be very legit to the part of Pennsylvania she's supposed to be living

Stephen:

then. So is it more towards like Philadelphia or closer to Pittsburgh?

Elaine:

Honestly, I don't know. I've never heard of east town before, so I'm assuming

Stephen:

it's east of somewhere. I know people that grew up in Pittsburgh and they have words like Which is kind of like their version of y'all

Elaine:

yeah, it doesn't sound like a classic east coast accent. To me, it sounds much more industrial

Stephen:

maybe. And we also know people from around Philadelphia that say the thing that comes out of your faucet is water. Yeah. U D D E R.

Elaine:

Right? I think, I mean, again, I'm not completely familiar with all the accents in Pennsylvania, unlike in Ohio and Kentucky, I got those pretty much down.

Steve:

You can say if any of our listeners from Pennsylvania can attest to whether her accent is good or not, please email [email protected] And we will report back for our listeners in a future episode.

Stephen:

Yes, please. And speaking

Steve:

of reporting back, this is a game that we hinted at that you were starting, but I feel like you're at a place now where you can tell us a little bit more about

Stephen:

why it's a binge. Yes. So I have been playing the outer worlds, which is a Saifai exploration type of game on the Nintendo switch. It's for multiple consoles, but I've been playing it on the switch and. It is a great mixture of action, RPG, elements, adventure exploration, with a fun story. Great humor. Visuals are beautiful. You can definitely get lost in the world. So anybody that's looking for something to, you know, spend about 40 hours of gaming, just diving into something that is totally worth your time. I definitely suggest the outer worlds.

Steve:

Excellent. Well, thank you for that. Yes. I haven't played it yet, but it definitely is on my list and it seems like it's inspired by, from what I've also read a bit like the fallout games, like fallout four fallout, new Vegas, especially. So if you like those, those are some well-known, but those, the games that might also, you know, if you'd like those, you might like the outer world, so definitely

Stephen:

check it out. And so where this week talking about Dr. Sleep, why do we like Dr. Sleep, babe? Well,

Steve:

I like it because first of all, it is a SQL to the shining, which we had last week. And it even follows the same exact theme, which I thought was interesting that they did the same exact theme, but I kind of like it well,

Stephen:

and I liked that, especially with the Dr sleep theme, that it starts off the same and then kicks into with some contemporary instruments and music. So I was a big fan of that, but one of the reasons I love it is you had this story with the shining that it's a couple months in time for this character who many people came to really want to know about. And. Unfortunately with some books and movies, you never get to find out whatever happens to that character. And then I was gonna say, he

Steve:

didn't, Stephen can use to joke when people ask what happened to Danny Turin's that he said, like, he ran off with some girl protagonist from one of his other books and then like they lived happily ever after.

Stephen:

Yeah. He would make jokes because everyone's like, oh, what happened to Danny? What happened to Danny? So we just started coming up with like really random things that Danny ended up doing, keeping it all in the king universe. And, but I like that we get to go back and see, you know, what happens to this child who had such a horribly traumatic event happened to him? I was going to say, well, what

Steve:

just in case someone for some reason was starting with this episode and forgot what happened last week in the shining. What happened in the shining previously

Stephen:

on the shining? Thank you. My life. Danny had a psychic gift and went through some horrible shit at the overlook hotel, which brought about his father's alcoholism and his father's horrible rage to where his father was convinced that if he were going to be the success that he needed to be, he needed to kill off his family. And so Danny and his mother were fighting for their lives against his father and the hotel, which had come alive. Yes. And his

Steve:

father had killed the only person who also had the same gift as Danny, before he really got a chance to teach them anything of value

Stephen:

about it. So you have Danny that has this interesting form of telepathy and it sends him down some dark paths. But Elaine, what did you really, just as a broad brush, enjoy that Dr. Sleep was.

Elaine:

The movie I really liked because they filled in a lot of the gaps what happened afterwards, but also more about what the shining really is, how people control it. And I also like that the movie was more of an action thriller, so much psychological thriller. So it kinda, you know, kept you excited or not so depressed along

Stephen:

the way.

Steve:

Yes. It certainly was a lot less claustrophobic feeling. Cause in the hotel, even though it was such a large hotel, you were like trapped in the hotel and this one had very much, it's like you're on the road and chasing and getting and getting, where are we going now?

Stephen:

And yeah, it had a much larger scope to it for Dr. Sleep. Dr. Sleep novel. Yes. Came out in 2013 and we did read it. And whenever Stephen King first announced it, I got really excited and I was like, babe, we've got to read this and we should reread. The shining first. Yes.

Steve:

And so I read the shining for the first time. Then we watched the movie, the shining that we covered last week, the Stanley Kubrick version. And then we watched the TV series. I mean, he series, and then we watched this. So out of all four things that I have to say, honestly, that this is my favorite

Stephen:

of all of them. Yeah. I know that that's going to be blasphemous to some people, but I really, really love the Dr. Sleep movie so much.

Steve:

Yes. Now Dr. Sleep, I am DB summarizes this movie as years following the events of the shining and now adult Dan Torrence must protect a young girl with similar powers from a cult known as the true knot who prey on children with powers to remain immortal, which I feel like is once again, a good job, I am DB you

Stephen:

didn't fuck it up. Yeah. And I, I like just how HBO max is doing the pre-call type of series about The ghosts of the overlook hotel, I would love for someone to go and show us what the true knot has done over the centuries, because whenever the grandfather of the group is passing a rose, their hats, talking to him, she's like you were there as empires fell and you were a consultant to Kings and emperors and things, and I'm like, I want to see all that. That sounds fascinating. Yeah,

Steve:

it certainly is a very interesting take because Stephen King, when he originally was teasing the book, he teased that it was about Danny fighting vampires. And I was going to say that they, and they are vampires in the sense that they are draining the life force of. Humans until they're dead. So, you know, that, that is true in the sense, but it was just interesting that that's how they eat. They teased it. And I would say it also in the book was a little more literal. Wasn't it? Elaine, did you read the book

Elaine:

too? I did. I just read it this week. I had seen the film several times, but because I wanted to know a little bit more about the backstories of the true, not of especially rose, but all the other characters and Ambra and what her connection between Dan was, which the book does explain, but in the film it's left as kind of a a mystery or it's just implied through their specific powers.

Stephen:

Yes.

Steve:

Well, I, one thing I remember from the book is that when they, when they fed off of things with esteem, it wasn't just simply inhaling. She grew like an elephant nose, like tusk thing and had

Stephen:

one

Steve:

tooth.

Elaine:

Yeah, it was a very disturbing image I have

Stephen:

to

Steve:

find. Yes. And so I am very glad that they went the way that they went with this rose, the hat is a very beautiful actress. We love her very much,

Stephen:

Rebecca Ferguson. Well, so

Steve:

yes, let's do that. Tell us a little bit more about the, the actors and actresses who made this movie

Stephen:

possible. So 2019 American supernatural horror film written and directed by Mike Flanagan, who, if people are unfamiliar with his work, you need to check out movies like hush. The Weegee beginning, the pre-cool movie. So it's a SQL, that's a pre-qual. And also the haunting, a blind manner and the haunting of hill house on Netflix are both of his as well. He is my new favorite modern horror writer and director. It stars you and McGregor, which people know him from Moulin Rouge and the star wars prequel trilogy. He plays grown-up Danny Torrance. We have Rebecca Ferguson from the greatest showman as the villain from there. And she also plays the villain here, rose the hat and Kylie Kerryn as Amber Stone, who is our new generation Danny?

Steve:

Yes. And the movie was not the success that they were hoping. It had a budget of 45 to $55 million with a box office of only $72.3 million, which was considered a disappointment. Although it did go viral and had a resurgence of interest and popularity, when it premiered on streaming services in 2020 it was originally on HBO max, and now you can also watch it on Amazon prime. And it's also not the only version. If you saw it in the movie theaters, it may be worth going back and checking out. You can also watch the 20 minute extra longer director's cut, which is what we saw recently. And I really liked the little bit of extra. It was more graphic,

Stephen:

it was more, it was more graphic and it just seemed to make interesting scenes longer. It didn't really add anything that I didn't remember, but it just fleshed out some scenes better back to the box office. So whenever it first came out, there were a ton of shining fans, not book, but of the original movie that were frankly shitting all over the movie on all forms of social media and they were reviewed bombing it. And. I'm not sure why, because there's nothing in this that takes anything away from Kubrick's film. Not

Steve:

at all. I mean, Kubrick and king both gave their thumbs up. So really

Stephen:

Kubrick's

Steve:

a state. Yes. Kubrick's state. I don't know his life. He's dead. Well, that's why I don't know.

Stephen:

But I, a lot of people didn't give it a fair chance when it came out. And I find that unfortunate because I feel it's a very solid film with excellent acting, pacing and story. Yeah. Well, and I think

Elaine:

that part of the reason why people weren't as thrilled about it is because Kubrick wasn't directing that, which obviously

Stephen:

he really wanted to, he would have found a way,

Elaine:

but I mean, I just, you know, I think people go in expecting something as. Like very focused and directed, like we talked about with Kubrick style and it wasn't that, you know, and it doesn't need to be, I mean, Kubrick is, as we talked about last week known for being psychotic or overly involved in the

Steve:

filmmaking process here that was in this movie does not seem to be having any sort of emotional, psychological aftermath of the way that a Flanagan directed them, unlike the shining. So there's up

Stephen:

that perk one of the things that I've noticed about Mike Flanagan's directing on things, the way he does it and focus on characters. I feel like you get a sense of who people are. Really well. Yeah, because, because he fleshed out Danny with this, even to the point of some of the other characters they had arcs and you really just felt like you knew them by the time this was done and it wasn't like surface level. Yes.

Steve:

Now, I mean, with that one thing that I've noticed, especially across like his Netflix series, but in this, he does like to go into the history, not just through the narrative, but also by actually showing it. And so that's how this movie starts off is with a kind of a aftermath of the movie, the shining, where Danny is still very young and we're seeing what happens. What was it? It was a couple months

Stephen:

afterwards, about six months after. And they had gone to Florida as well. He and his mom and Bravo to the director, the casting people to get people that looked enough like Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall. That it wasn't jarring that it wasn't them.

Elaine:

I thought the Shelley character was great.

Stephen:

I did do I did.

Steve:

I liked the Shelley character better than the, the Jack one.

Stephen:

Right. And w what I liked what they did and we'll get to that. But the the Jack character, they had him replace one of our favorite ghosts from the shining of the bartender, which I would have rather had the bartender well, but it was interesting that then, you know, he gets to talk to his ghost dad and that the ghost dad is playing it with the monotone thing that the bartender had done for Jack as well. So it was a really interesting, full circle juxtaposition with it all. But let's start with, so we said six months and he's getting visited by. The ghost of Dick Holleran pitch. That was amazing casting as well. Yes. I really liked

Steve:

that. That was, I feel like perfect recast and cause similarly like Kubrick the scat main Crothers is no longer with us. Right? And so that is why they had this recasting and because he was a ghost, he needed to still be able to teach Danny a little bit more about the shining with the boxes,

Stephen:

because the ghosts, we're still finding a way to find Danny all the way in Florida. And so he, you started showing him how that he, he had him look at this box that was in his hand and really get to know the box and create one in his brain so that when those ghosts came to terrorize him again, he could lock them away with his shining power, which I thought was fascinating to go that route with it.

Elaine:

I also really like at the end of Dr. Sleeps, that they show you the boxes, how he has them locked in his brain, that sequence. And then, you know, when they're actually let loose how he unlocks that part of his brain, I just thought that was really a very good visual to include in the film that again, brings it back full

Stephen:

circle. And the fact that where they were all locked in his brain was the maze. Yes.

Steve:

It was just, yeah, it was, it was a beautiful

Stephen:

visual, like that was

Steve:

brilliantly done. Now, in terms of psychology, do either of you believe that this is the right way to handle your traumas, to just hide it and lock it away in a box in your brain?

Stephen:

Well, obviously, no. I mean, because I mean, some listeners might be

Steve:

like, yeah, that's what I do with all my trauma. And I'll just do it just,

Stephen:

Nope. So that's obviously not the way because you're ignoring. Your trauma and you're compartmentalizing things. Now that's not to say that there are people that are dealing with things. And the only way that they can currently deal with things is to compartmentalize, but they're not actually dealing with them and growing past them. So just like Danny's ghosts, he wasn't dealing with them. He was putting them away. So they weren't bothering him, but they were still there.

Steve:

Yes. And so at that metaphor, I did just want to point out great figuratively, not so great, actually,

Stephen:

but so, and Danny grows up and Danny becomes. An alcoholic drug addict to numb the shine.

Steve:

Yes. And that's something that I know that they've fleshed out a lot more in the book about the experience. I believe at least Elaine, you're going to be fresher on the book than we are because

Elaine:

they talk about it all the time.

Steve:

Yeah. Because the AA. Yeah. And it was a lot more for my understand about like, based off of Stephen King's own experiences through his journey too, but that you know, it is very much talking about how, how he is, because it wasn't just the ghost from this show. The, you know, that were from the the overlook that were haunting and shining in that made him drink. But it was just the whole having the shine, hearing people's thoughts, knowing when things would happen, that, that, like he was trying to Adele that gift. And I don't know whether that, that was implied in the movie, but it never was explicit. I feel like as much as it wasn't the book. Right. And

Elaine:

I mean, you can tell in the movie because he ends up having these telepathic conversations with address, but it's never actually said, and in the book Dan talks about the fact that he hadn't tried that before he wasn't, you know, completely familiar because his entire life, he had been trying to get rid of the shine or at least lock it down.

Steve:

Exactly. So I, I do like that because in the movie it did feel like what that little time jumping it's like, okay, Danny can lock away the coast. Everything's all better. Now, flash forward. I'm letting a woman in her crack, baby die. And I was like, well, that was a very jarring jump for someone who just had this like great closure after this traumatic experience to then flash forward to that. Well,

Stephen:

but you also, he didn't have anybody to really learn from because windy. In the movie, her thing was an I'm. Okay. You're okay. Let's not talk about it type of parenting, but that never happens with parents when you're talking about, but so he, like, Danny didn't want to make her uncomfortable because he even talks about, you know, my mom would look at me weird and he, so he was doing what he could growing up to hide the shine. So once he was old enough to start using. Substances to hide the shine. He that's, all I knew was Al for to exist in the world. I need to hide my shine.

Steve:

And I

Elaine:

think that, I mean, at the age of five, Danny goes to overlook and is haunted by all of these murderous creeps. And Agra is just, you know, at a birthday party, hanging out with a magician and then put some students upon the ceiling. You know what I mean? It's a completely different upbringing. So I feel like her character in the movie as well as in the book is really having fun with that. At first she's playing piano from her bedroom, you know, and doing all of these other things that are not nearly as jarring or detrimental to your, you know, wellbeing.

Steve:

Certainly not.

Stephen:

And so. Because we have protagonists that we've hinted at with Danny and Agra, we have some antagonists and one of those is rose the hat. And this is how we are introduced.

Elaine:

You're wondering when where's your funny hat. I always wear this hat so

Stephen:

much. It's a part of my name now, my friends, my very, very best friends. They just call me rose the

Steve:

hat. It looks like on the dishes.

Stephen:

It is it's. Do you want to see nothing and then they eat her.

Steve:

Yes. This is certainly if, if the death of children bothers you, this was not their movie for you at all. Not at all.

Stephen:

So Rebecca Ferguson is a very underrated actress because with her performance in the greatest showman and in this, I feel like people should be knocking down her door to get her to star in anything and everything, because while we're not supposed to root for rose the hat in this movie, she does nothing to get us to root for her she's vial. She kills children. It's evil. Her performance is so damn good.

Steve:

Yes. I mean, even though she was on the wrong side of things through, she was a strong, powerful woman leading a group of miscreants. So you instantly were like,

Stephen:

you, what did you think of rose the hat? Elaine.

Elaine:

I'm she was great. I actually. I think that all the villains were pretty great. I really like Crawdaddy and my favorite was snake by Andy, but you know, I think that you do end up rooting for them, even though they are these incredibly evil beams. And that makes the movie really interesting to watch. You're not necessarily rooting for them, but you're really excited to see what they're going to do.

Stephen:

Yeah. I, because that's the

Steve:

best way to put it. I was going to say, cause with snakebite, Andy, especially that opening scene, when you get to meet her in the movie theater and you learn why she got her nickname, snakebite Andy with like cutting the snake bites into the cheeks of these pedophiles. Yeah. You know, at the, at that point, you're like, how could I not root for her? Yeah. And then, and then the, you know, with the things that they all do as a group afterwards with the whole murdering children, maybe that's when you stop rooting for her, I think. But yes, she was their pusher. Yeah.

Stephen:

And

Elaine:

which is also an interesting device that Dr. Sleep, unlike the shining kind of brings into the story, that there are other people that have magical talents, just not necessarily the

Stephen:

shiny well, and so it's interesting. Like I come from a comic book background and all of the things that they can all do are all forms of telepathy. Now there are certain, like my favorite X-Men is Jean Gray, everything that the different people can do. Jean can do, and she can do it better. But what's interesting is that they're showing all the different sides. There are two telepathy, like snakebite. Andy is the one that can influence her will upon others and people can read mine and others can sure. And you see the future and others can travel on the astral plane and go into other people's brains, read their minds and things. So it's interesting that they're showing all the facets of telepathy and things still under the guise of the shining or being able to shine. And I liked that they've expanded what the shining could be

Steve:

w with Crow, daddy he was, well, which one did he have? I forget. Cause I know that he went, he was just overall the bad-ass like co-leader two rows the hat, but did we actually see him use his shine?

Elaine:

I'm not sure if he actually had much. And I think again, they explained this a little bit better in the book that some people, you know, have a little bit, but and a lot of the characters in the film have a little bit, but I don't know if Crow daddy really had any or maybe that's, you know, something that they can explore. You want to know what

Steve:

one of his powers do you want to know at one of his powers? Wasn't.

Stephen:

No, no safe driving was not. I mean, I, it's also one of those things, if you're immortal, you're probably not gonna think that you need to wear a seatbelt. Danny grows up. And as we said, we, he became an alcoholic drug addict and he does hit rock bottom after the woman's death and leaving the child. And he decides to turn his life around. And that's also, whenever we are introduced to one of the other characters, Billy played by cliff Curtis who gets Danny to start going to AA and gets Danny a job at a skilled nursing facility.

Steve:

Yes. And it was at this point as he's trying to overcome. His alcoholism and his past actions that I had actually brought me back to actually something that we watched recently from your friend, Sherry McKinley, the she is she's crazy. Oh yeah, she's crazy. Because I feel like a lot of the shining as much as it is, you know, the telepathy and the magic you part of it, it also is an allegory a lot of times where there was a lot of similarities, at least to the way that people handle mental health issues. And like self-medicating with that, drinking it away. And, you know, the experiences with that kind of watching Sherry do her thing on with she's crazy. And then watching this a week or two later, I was like, oh yeah, I see the similarities there.

Stephen:

So Elaine you've met my friend Sherry in Cincinnati. She was the director for big gay wedding that I was in. And she wrote and stars in a musical also, doc, you play called chiefs crazy where they go over. Mental health issues. We will link to it in the show notes for people. You can find it online. It's really good. Everyone should watch it because it really does open up your mind to mental health issues and, and stigmas and things like that. Yes.

Steve:

And so watching that, you know, and they talked about one of the experiences was how people mask it with alcohol, like their creativity, or like their eccentricities or their bipolar disorder or things like that. It just seems like that's how he was handling it. And as he comes clean, he finds out, he can use this gift for good to help people pass with the little nice voice

Stephen:

in their head. Well, and so as he starting to get clean, Dick holler and the ghost comes at him and he reminds him, he says, you know, you can put things from the overlook away in boxes, but not memories, Danny. They're the real ghosts. And you take them with you, which that's on his road to recovery telling him I know what you did to that woman. You know what you did to that woman. You can't put that in a box. You have to find a way to come to terms with it and make amends for it. And I think that's what he starts to do when he's at the skilled nursing facility. That has one of those cats that you hear about on the internet that can tell when somebody is dying. And so Danny is able to go into their rooms and help them pass more peacefully.

Elaine:

The cat is actually one of my favorite characters. I mean, I think, I think they did a good job of it in the movie. But you know, it meals outside of the door or it just hops up in the person's bed. And then the second it's over, it's like, all right, I'm out of here. And just like takes off.

Stephen:

Danny just refers, which it's really interesting. Danny says. We're all dying. The world's just one big hospice with fresh air. Well, that's not very refreshing. It's not

Steve:

very refreshing. My cast is a lifetime of happiness fame. That's one of the saddest saddest things that anyone could

Elaine:

ever ever say. And I used to work for a hospice

Steve:

organization

Stephen:

as Danny is getting his life together. He also starts having telepathic communications with Ambra, which Elaine talked about how at her birthday party, she was like, I know where all the tricks are in the meditation. Good for you kid. Yeah. And

Steve:

I wondered her throwing those spoons in his eye.

Stephen:

So we get a time jump to where Danny is much more healed. He's fully in his role of Dr. Sleep. Now helping those people. He has many years of a chip. And he, and Aberra have been communicating, but never face to face. And Amber then decides to skip school, catch a bus and ride up and meet Danny in person. And he, and she have a conversation on a bench and it, to her, everything is magic and she goes, you're magic. Like me and Danny being the pessimists that he is says, you need to listen to me. The world's a hungry place, a dark place. I've only met two or three people like us. They died when I was a kid, I bumped into these things. I don't know about magic, but I always called it the shining. And then they start having their conversation. And you realize that this girl is very, very special. And probably even stronger than Danny was when he was a kid.

Steve:

And they say that like, she's going to be the strongest shine that they ever had shine, which I think part of it might be just the fact that like, as we mentioned before, like her parents were so supportive of it and she had had such a healthy upbringing, unlike many other kids with the shine who get eaten or go to the overlook

Stephen:

hotel or get put on ADHD medication and dull the shine out. Yes.

Steve:

Because they tell their parents that they have an imaginary man who lives in their mouth, who talks to him and takes them over his body.

Stephen:

Danny then becomes a mentor.

Steve:

Yes. By choice or by application

Stephen:

obligation. I think it's by obligation because he doesn't want what happened to Abby, to him to happen to Abra.

Elaine:

I think it's both actually. I mean, you know, hollering tells him you have a debt to pay, you know? And I think it's partially for selfish reasons that he believes that as part of his sobriety or, you know, something that he really needs to deal with in life. But I also think he is truly a. Caring person. And I mean, I think we see that all the way back to the beginning. When he's five and in the overlook, I mean, he is a very sensitive person in general, not just as a child. He helps people transition from life to death and hospice. That's not just something that everyone can do. Even if you did have the shine, I think it shows a lot of compassion and he doesn't want anything bad to happen to anyone else, especially someone as innocent and kind of happy go lucky as Agra seems to

Stephen:

be you're right. And one of his quotes in the movie is our beliefs don't make us better people. Our actions make us better people. So him becoming her mentor totally tracks with that. Right. And

Elaine:

he might've needed a little push. I mean, of course he's going to be hesitant about getting involved, but I also think it's his compassion.

Steve:

Yeah. And it also helps that it wasn't just like this young girl. I was like, I have power as I need to like talk to you just because I want to talk to you because as an older recovering alcoholic, man, you know, having a young girl show up just saying, Hey, alderman, I want to talk to you, but she's coming to him with a problem. She's coming to him because of the missing boy Bradley. And she knows, or she thinks she knows where he is and who's after him.

Stephen:

Right. And her and her. And so the true knot and which has rose the hats gang, as we said, they survive off the steam and we see even people that don't shine whenever they die, give off steam. We saw that in the skilled nursing, whenever Danny would help them pass. And they would exhale the, a small bit of steam as they died for all the people that truly shine. They give off a lot of steam and the true knot. That's what keeps them alive. They breathe it in and they can store it in these canisters and feed on it later. But the problem for them is that steam's running out. People aren't as steamy as they used to be.

Steve:

Yeah. More people are on like, as we we've already hinted at, you know, antidepressants or ADHD medication or things that would dull their sign or their ability to be found somehow Danny slipped by them. I think because he was so busy dealing with the overlook and the fallout from that.

Stephen:

And maybe it was, as we said, after the overlook, he was doing everything. He could not to use his abilities at all. So he didn't come up like a beacon on their radar because he was doing his best not to shine. Yeah.

Steve:

Yes. Meanwhile, with Amber in the book, refresh my memory only, but didn't, they make it seem more like they L even though they found her in the flashback, they let her get older. Cause they were almost trying to like, wasn't there like a perfect time to get the shine or the steam off of people. And they were trying to like fatten her almost up like a pig.

Elaine:

Yeah, rose, I think says she's not ready yet. And, you know, let her develop because she's getting more and more powerful. So when she's younger, I think they make it seem like she's, you know, six or seven or something in the first contact and she and rose realizes, wow, that's a really big one. That, you know, she knows that scene is running out and this could really feed the true, not for, you know, she makes it seem like years to come. So she wants to make sure to get it right at the exact right time.

Stephen:

It's going to be their captain Ahab's white whale. Yes,

Steve:

exactly. But to tie them over in the meantime they find Bradley and that was a surprising death, especially, I remember it being quicker on the, in the theatrical release. Then when you see them devour him in the director's cut. It was that just me.

Stephen:

I didn't remember it being as vicious and visceral and just really, really harsh as it was in the director's cut because I mean, they. These are children. And of course they're going to be scared. I mean, they kidnapped this kid on his way, home from winning a baseball game. And also let's talk about his parents. I can honestly say there was never a sporting event that I participated in that I didn't have one family member there watching me victim blaming

Steve:

they

Stephen:

victim blaming his parents. And then they let him walk home all by himself. They didn't say, okay, honey, Billy Henderson's mom is going to drive you home. No, he walked in an old country road all by himself. It's very, he's dead. All right. Well

Steve:

fine. If we're going to go there. Yes, fine. It's

Stephen:

their fault. It was, it was very, oh, it was rough on that one. And but that moment Abba was there. Whenever it was happening and rose could tell that she was being spied on. Yes. And we'll

Elaine:

throw the pain, increases the sweetness of the steam or something, which is another very disturbing,

Stephen:

because the more, the more scared you are, the more steam will come out and a little bit of pain increases the sweetness, so it tastes better. So I was like, that's not messed

Steve:

up at all. That's, that's how they get like that kind of vampire allegory from it. I can definitely tell,

Stephen:

I mean, they're absolutely psychic vampires.

Steve:

And so that was one of the surprising deaths, but then I think I was almost more surprised by Billy's death because that came as like a snake by Andy's final. Fuck you, before she

Stephen:

died. Right. And so whenever. Abby is there rose gets the hint that somebody there, somebody powerful, she, and Ambra have this little back and forth where Ambra goes looking for again while Rose's grocery shopping and then pushes her out of her brain so hard that rose skids backwards on her, but 30 feet. And nobody has ever done that before. Not only is it surprising that she's that powerful, she's pissed that she was treated in that way. When she rose is to be the all

Steve:

power, she has the ego of the all-powerful one for so long

Stephen:

personal at that point.

Steve:

Yes. That's the time to

Elaine:

really. And really I mean the actress portrays that in an amazing way. You know, she goes from being really curious. And then at the end of that scene, she's ultimately pissed and out for

Steve:

revenge, Sandy and her entire crew, all, but Crow, daddy gets shot off one by one by one in that trap that they sat for

Stephen:

her. Cause then she sends everybody across the country to go get Agra. Agra realized that they're coming talks to Danny. Danny talks to his sponsor, Billy, they set up a trap. So that it'll make it seem like an average out in the woods with them. But then Danny and Billy are just gonna, you know, bang, bang, bang, shoot, 'em all and take them out. And it turns out Amber is not there. And they, Billy and them and building Danny kill off most of them. And, but. Snake by Andy's been shot. She's not dead. She gets a hold of Billy and pushes him to commit suicide.

Steve:

Yes. Her dying breath was killing herself. I need this. And I was like, what? Oh my

Stephen:

goodness. Yeah, that one, I mean, I know it's an eye for an eye and we shouldn't expect like the good guys to come away without any casual casualties. But that was a shocking death to me in the movie.

Steve:

Yes. And then almost a shocking was average dad then also doesn't make it through, even

Elaine:

though, I mean, that scene in the movie is maybe the only one that I really have a problem. He like nobody ever mentions it again. Right. I mean, it's just dead. And then they're like, okay. Off to, you know, kill rose.

Stephen:

Like, I mean, okay. Yeah. So CRO Dabi, kidnap Sabra kills her father. And the only real thing that we have of it is whenever her mom gets back from visiting the sick relative and all the police are at the house and she's outside trying to get ahold of Ambra on the phone. And Amber picks up the phone and says, mom, I'm fine. I'll call you later. And

Elaine:

then just throws her phone out the window, like, okay.

Steve:

Yeah. So they didn't really handle that all to all to grade, but that I think made it even more shocking.

Stephen:

And so Danny has a plan that if they're going to take out rose, they're going to have to get some help and the place that he knows, where they can get the most quote unquote help. Is the overlook hotel and thanks to Andy because in the book and the movie, they, he sets it up so that they go to where the overlook was. I think, yeah, this

Steve:

works better. And the movie that it's, the hotel is still here because as we mentioned in last week's episode, at the end of the shining and the book, the hotel blew up. So it was on the grounds of it. But here it even works better because you got to be back in the hotel. And I loved that about it returning to the overlook all these years later.

Stephen:

And so Danny tells Ambra stay outside, I'm going to go in and wake up the hotel. And so Danny goes down to the boiler room, flips everything on. So the lights come on and he goes up and he heads into the ballroom and at the bar is his father. And you know, his dad says the thing of I can't, I'm going to misquote it a little bit, but he was like I don't know where everybody is, but I'm sure it'll pick up soon. And Danny's like, oh yes. I know it'll pick up. Yes. Because the hotel's happy that he's back. Oh yes.

Steve:

They're like welcome back, Danny

Stephen:

and, and his dad started having a conversation because his dad battled alcohol, Danny battled alcohol, and his dad's there trying to do the same thing that the bartender did to his father of he's trying to make Danny this time feel put upon by getting involved in average drama. And so he's like, you know, just take a drink. It's on the house. You know, your money's no good here by orders of the management. Your, your credit is fine. And Danny's like, you know, man takes a drink, a drink, takes the drink and the drink takes the man. And his dad, the bartender says not a drink medicine. Medicine is what of what it is. And you know, where Jack had been stalking down the hotel about Kamari little pup and take your medicine. And so it's a really interesting callback where this Jack Torrance isn't as lively as Jack Nicholson, but they put him into the blank slate, bartender character. And that's interesting. And I like how they did that. What did you guys think of his conversations with his father?

Elaine:

I liked it. It's not exactly what I was expecting and I guess I wanted a little bit more out of it, but I do like that some of the same lines were spoken that it is a throwback to the movie, the shining and the ending between the books and the movies, both of them actually is where the story kind of, you know, differs. It goes in different directions. So it's a way to bring the two endings together. So it worked it wasn't my favorite part, but it was effective. So,

Stephen:

Rose, the hat shows up at the hotel and by this point Danny's got everything awake and ambers in there with him and their first standoff meeting. Is at the stairwell where Danny's in the position that his mother was in the original movie. Yeah. That's really good. And he has an app this time and she's down at the bottom and that's where you have this wonderful, like sexually flirting conversation between rose the hat and Danny, where she feels comes off as like this sexual predator and he's her prey. Well, yeah, because

Steve:

I mean, it's, it's sexual, but it's still, also like the same way that like it's almost. Food at the same time. Yeah. She's like, how did I miss you? Like she is, it's just like, she missed this fine wine that she's like, you know, you're past your prime now, but how did this happen? Like, especially with Hans to eat him up and in a sexy way, but also in an actual, I want to eat you.

Stephen:

Yeah. Like I, she hisses

Elaine:

too. She's how did I miss you?

Stephen:

And I know that we see that, like, it was all building up to this meeting scene, but their chemistry, it also now makes me want somehow for you and McGregor and Rebecca Ferguson to do another movie together, because I think they would have fantastic chemistry. Yes,

Steve:

they certainly would, but here it didn't work out that way. Instead, after a failed attempt to trap her in a box, he ends up sticking all the boxes open in one of the coolest visual effects of boxes in current box graphy.

Stephen:

Yes, darling. I couldn't have put it better myself. Exactly. There, you

Steve:

have our quote for the audio gram photo.

Stephen:

Yeah. And you get to see all of your favorites between the owner of the hotel and the sisters and the woman in two 37 and everybody is there and they all go after rose to the point. And her death is really visual and violent and yeah. Oh, but it really

Elaine:

mirrors how they killed the baseball kid, Brad you know, all feeding on her and Dan even says like they're starving, you know?

Stephen:

And,

Steve:

That ends up becoming the issue is that they're starving and rose was not

Stephen:

enough in grows was not enough. And Danny is dying because rose nicked his femoral artery. And so he's going to bleed out. Well, you

Steve:

say next, like he just had like a finger nail Cutco grazed, his femoral artery. I mean, she hacked him in the leg with the fucking saw or not the saw the

Stephen:

ax. I know, but you have to say Nick too, because if it was any more, he would have bled out before then. Exactly. But he's in so much pain. He can't fight against the hotel. Like he should have been able to, and he can't

Steve:

put them all back in their boxes all at once. He's not that powerful. And

Stephen:

so the hotel. Finally, after all these years gets him and it's Danny now mirroring his father going after Agra who's mirroring running like Danny did. And it's, it was very well done.

Steve:

Well done. Yes it is. And then just like in the original book he does at the very end, ended up gaining enough control and power over himself. That Damian goes down and lets the whole hotel blow and he ends up dying in the fire, but it's okay. Cause he's a friendly

Stephen:

ghost. Yeah. And w I love that this way. So let's say Stephen King writes a third in the series of like algebra doing something at that point, the books and the movies are now both to the point where the overlook is burned down because it burned down and the original book. And now thanks to Dr. Sleep. The movie, the hotel no longer exists. It, you know, it took 30 years, 40 years, 40 years. But the overlook is burned down in all forms of media now. Yes.

Steve:

What did you think of the ending, Elaine?

Elaine:

I really liked it. I mean, I was disappointed that Danny dies, but again, technically he is still around and it's hinted at, throughout the entire movie that, you know, there is something after or, you know, go surreal and they can communicate with you. So. You know, that kind of starts in the beginning of the movie with Halloran who dies in the end of the film, the shining and you know, comes back to be Danny's mentor. So he, again, it's kind of continuing that with Ambra.

Steve:

And we, and he teaches her the box trick in

Stephen:

time, right? Yes. Because the woman in two 37 just won't quit.

Elaine:

Yeah. I liked the end and I like how everything kind of wrapped up, but also it does leave the story open to possibly

Stephen:

continue. Yeah. Yeah. And am I wrong that in the book Dr. Sleep, Danny didn't die. He made it out before the hotel blue, because there was no hotel building. They killed off more people for. The book or the movie than they did in the book. Yeah.

Elaine:

So Danny doesn't die. Billy doesn't die and Alfred's dad doesn't die.

Stephen:

Oh goodness. All the good guys, one in the boat

Steve:

and Mike Flanagan was like, no, thank you.

Stephen:

Because in the finale of the book, they're at. The Indian burial ground, right. That that's where the finale takes place between rose and Danny

Steve:

refresher.

Elaine:

Well, there's a campground where the hotel used to be, and that's where the true knot kind of sets up camp. So all of the same elements are there, just the hotel itself is not. So, you know, it's kind of an easy transition to have the hotel there because it didn't burn down at the end of the shining film. So, I mean, there's not a ton of change as far as that goes, but at the very, very end of the book, they're all at Abrons 15th birthday party and it's like a happy ending and Danny is celebrating 15 years sober as

Stephen:

well. Oh, and so that's interesting that, you know, the saints over the same when she was born. Yeah.

Elaine:

So yeah, I mean, some of the other characters that weren't included in the movie version did die off in the book, but all the main characters that we see in the film remain, living or breathing in at least the end of the

Stephen:

film. Elaine, what is so overall, give us your thoughts on the film and how you feel it fits in with the overlook universe.

Elaine:

I love the film. I mean, when I saw it at first, I wasn't disappointed, even though the shining is one of my favorite movies of all time. And I think that the director, Mike Flannery again, did a really great job going between the two. Versions you know, the films and the books and tying everything together, the casting was amazing. And yeah, it was, you know, an action driven film, which made it a little bit more fun and more maybe enjoyable to watch then the shining,

Stephen:

which it's definitely more rewatched probably. Yeah.

Elaine:

I mean, you know, I'm going to watch the shining like a hundred more times,

Steve:

but you have to get better with a rewatch or

Stephen:

two. What did you, what did you think, darling? Well, just,

Steve:

I liked that it got better. The more that we watched it and the more that we learned about it, I really think that it fits into the Stephen King universe really well. And I hoped that, especially with how popular his movies are getting. That they can continue the movies, even if they, I hope we don't have to wait another 20 years for another book to get another movie

Stephen:

agreed. And so I loved this so very much. Rebecca Ferguson deserves a lot of credit for selling the character of rose the hat and making her probably one of my favorite Stephen King villains outside of Pennywise, the clown ever. She just did a really great job with that. One of the things that I love that, you know, they say there is life after, in certain ghosts, come back, Wendy, doesn't come back to Danny in this. So in my mind, It means that Wendy is finally at peace somewhere. And I think she deserves that. Yes. Agreed.

Steve:

So I think everyone lives happily ever after. That's still alive, still alive, except all the dead people.

Stephen:

And Mike Flanagan's even doing another Stephen King movie called the revival. We'll have to check

Steve:

out our big eyes and ears out for, for our binge

Stephen:

and purge section. I think he also did Gerald's game. That was on Netflix as well. I liked that one too. Like he's very, very good. And I am totally okay with him staying in the Stephen King business. Elaine, thank you so much, very much for joining us. Like I love talking to you in general, but it was wonderful to get to talk to you again about movies. Yes,

Elaine:

absolutely. I need more movie buddies.

Stephen:

Well, we are happy to be a cross-country movie buddy from, for you.

Steve:

Thank you. And we are also happy to keep giving our listeners, our movie buddy advice and discussions every week for new episodes every Wednesday. So make sure you were following us wherever

Stephen:

you are listening. Yes. And you can always see us on all the socials, whether it is Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram at happy life pod. And if they wanted to get in touch with us another way, darling, how could you do that?

Steve:

Google? No, just kidding. It's happy life [email protected]

Stephen:

That's exactly right. And until next time everybody stay

Steve:

happy.