The Steves bring back Dr. Brianne Horvath to discuss the LGBT+ favorite and cult classic movie Death Becomes Her, along with what's making them happy.
What's New and Happy?
Death Becomes Her (1992)
Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.
The Steves bring back Dr. Brianne Horvath to discuss the LGBT+ favorite and cult classic movie Death Becomes Her, along with what's making them happy.
What's New and Happy?
Death Becomes Her (1992)
Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.
Hello, returning happiest and new listeners. This is Steve Bennet-Martin, and
Stephen:this is Stephen Martin-Bennet. And welcome to a lifetime
Steve:of happiness. The podcast where we take you on our journey through some of the movies, TV shows, and other bits of pop culture that are helping to keep us happy while hopefully bring a smile to your face along the way. And
Stephen:today we are going to see him play Viva live forever. As we discussed the 1992 cult classic death becomes
Steve:her. Yes. And to help us, we are welcoming back to the show Dr. Brianne Horvath. Welcome back.
Brianne:Hi everybody. Hi guys.
Stephen:Welcome back, honey. Thank you.
Steve:Yes. And why did we invite you back? Do you think for death becomes her specifically? Well,
Brianne:I huge fan and part of me being a fan of the movie is what has bonded me to Steven. In fact, a couple years ago, when I was actually at drag con in New York, I picked up. A really lovely clack fan that has on guard bitch with Maryland gold from the movie. And gifted that to Steven since we are both lovers of the films. So I I I've always admired the characters. I kind of emulate my performance character after them. And, and I watch it over and over.
Stephen:Yes, it's one of my all time favorite movies it's in my top three and it's actually so clue, as many people know is my all time. Favorite movie and death becomes her and the princess bride are tied for second with me. And we have gotten here top three, as you wish. It's just something about this movie where the performances. Are so spot on the writing is so witty. There's something to see new each time. Like we just saw this time watching it. Yeah. Yes.
Steve:But before we get too into this beautiful movie what's been keeping you happy lately brand.
Brianne:I think we all know that it's pride month and I had the absolute pleasure of riding alongside Steven in the pride car parade down main street in downtown Sarasota last Saturday morning. We spent the night before almost four hours. Sharing our creative efforts in making an a, I think it was like 80 balloons, right? An 80, an 80 balloon rainbow arch to Mount on top of the snazzy Berry Jeep. Yeah. And then I, I stayed up almost all night devising how to attach every other pride regalia item we had purchased to set vehicle while still driving safely.
Stephen:I would not have looked as good without her help at all. Yes.
Steve:I missed being up north, but I saw the pictures that came out. Yeah. I
Brianne:was really proud of that. I didn't even imagine it would be that no.
Stephen:And I was kind of shocked that We didn't place in the competition, but that's okay. That is okay. Because
Steve:we made up for it. Didn't we, babe.
Brianne:That's the other thing that's making me really happy because this morning, not only did I get to rock some rainbow hair, which I wish
Steve:this was a vlog. I know.
Brianne:But I got to accompany you guys in Remy in the, in the pride pet parade. And I don't want to, I don't want to spoil the
Steve:best stress.
Stephen:Yes. And he was our little pride Pegasus puppy and he had rainbow wings, rainbow legwarmers. He had some jewels in his hair and this awesome iridescent bandana. And he looked like this. Wonderful disco, diva puppy with wings. Like he could have been easily accepted into studio 54. Yes.
Steve:And so thank you, project pride. SRQ for making it possible. I would like, I was telling them today. I was just it's the first summer, really in Sarasota where I feel the pride. Like, I feel proud to be LG part of a community of LGBTQ plus in Sarasota. And that's not like we have to make a trip out of our area to go up to St. Pete or go up to Tampa or down somewhere else or to Orlando. Like we have our own community here. And it's the first year that I really feel like that
Stephen:they're doing a wonderful job of making sure that there are a wide range plethora of events that grab each part of our very diverse community and bring them together at events because not everybody's going to want to do a parade and not everybody's want to going to do a dance. Somehow, not everybody likes puppies. And so they're doing a great job with something for everyone. I mean, next weekend they have an art show with an auction to raise money for charity. I mean, they're really hitting all those sticker. Yeah. It's really great.
Steve:Yes. And going back into pub culture we will head on over to our binge and perch section wrapping up with a happy binge that ended happily ever after,
Stephen:basically. Yes. So I loved the movie, Erin Brockovich when it came out, like, yeah. She was fantastic. And then recently a lot of people know who Katie Seagal is from married with children. She played peg Bundy. And
Steve:then the voice of the one I girl
Stephen:on Futurama, she was, and she was she was Lila and she was also the mom of the biker gang sons of anarchy. And she won a golden globe for that performance.
Steve:Yeah. And so w we had mentioned that we were bingeing revel back in our screen to episode with Sean who was also watching it. Yes. And we wrapped up the season finale.
Yeah.
Stephen:Unfortunately, series finale, because ABC decided not to pick it up, reaching out to Netflix. If you can hear us right now, too, please, please, please pick it up, pick up this show. You can even take it a little more adult, a little darker. It was a great show. She's an advocate for the underdog and helping people out. And that hits all
Steve:of my favorite things. He's living under a dog
Stephen:story. I do. And she's also a bad-ass who bins the rules because the ends justify the means. And there are definitely situations where I agree with that motto and it was well acted. It was well-told, it was thoroughly enjoyable. And I'm sorry, it's over. But I was glad that it had a satisfying ending. So if you haven't watched it and you can find somewhere to stream it or binge it, do it because it's worth it, it's worth it. The 10 episodes you're feeling you'll feel like you.
Steve:Went on a good adventure and it does end wrapped up. There's obviously room for a season two and it would have been awesome, but you're not left with a cliff hanger. Correct. So with that, we'll move into I know two other women who are very similar to, to Erin Brockovich in terms of they, they are powerful and that you love them very much.
Stephen:Would that be Ms. Merrill and Ms. Golden? Yes, it is.
Steve:Yes. And for those of you who aren't familiar with death behind come, sir, first go watch it because we're about to spoil the fuck out of it. Yeah. But secondly, it will give you a little refresher about some background information on it. It's a 1992 American dark comedy fantasy film directed by Robert who, if you don't know him, be able to see from
Stephen:here, he did back to the future. And I think I'm gonna go out on eliminate. I could be very wrong, but I think he also did Ghostbusters.
Steve:Possibly. I don't know. I just picked my favorite for all of these that's fair. Similarly, I went to the writer writer, David Cohen, who wrote Jurassic park and he wrote a whole bunch of other movies as well, but I was like Jurassic park who doesn't love it. Exactly. So with that, and then Martin Donovan was a co-writer who'd wrote apparently what I called classic that we're not familiar with apartment zero. But we'll have to check it out one day when we have some extra free time. Yes.
Stephen:Oh he Roberts and Mexico is also responsible for who framed Roger rabbit. Oh, that was awesome. Yeah. And, and forest Gump actually,
Steve:which I have never seen. And
Stephen:Jen and Jen, and he did my favorite lady, polar express and the recent version of the witches that was on HBO max with Anne Hathaway. That was so good. Yeah. Yeah. It was
Brianne:very well done. No, I tell you, I, I don't know that I could move away from that terror that I recall from my
Stephen:childhood. Yeah. This was a different performance. And while Angelica Houston's performance. Is what sold that original movie, the, oh, this overall movie is a better movie that has better plotting pacing and effects.
Brianne:I see. I
Steve:I'll give it a shot. Okay. Yes. And not only is the creative team behind it. Brilliant, but it has some familiar faces. You might've seen them in one or two movies. Stars, Meryl Streep as Madeline. I love her from devil wears Prada. What's your favorite Meryl Streep movie?
Stephen:So devil wears Prada is fantastic. This is actually my favorite one, but if I had to go with another Merrill movie, that just makes me happy. Mama Mia makes me happy because you know how I love when somebody goes all in and Merrill as a steamed, as she is, goes all in, in mama Mia. And I appreciate that. And I respect that so much. Yeah. And do
Steve:you have a favorite marrow movie? You know,
Brianne:I have to agree that she lives up to every hype. I think that she's ever, ever gotten it as well deserved. There are so many times that her character kind of gives a, a nod to a part of my ego where I identify with her. So absolutely. Her in, in devil wears Prada, but truly my favorite and probably the most juxtaposed to who I you know, emulate voodoo after is Madeline Ashton in this movie? I can't, I can't deny it.
Steve:Yes. And then it also has a Bruce Willis who I didn't even recognize. Cause I knew him. First of all as of now. Right.
Stephen:And so actually looks a lot more like this character now, because back then he was 37 years old. He had a full head of hair. He was, yeah, that was,
Brianne:that was diehard. I was child. That was mother. Am I allowed to say that on that motherfucker
Steve:was going to say we have an explicit rating now that we're not targeting?
Brianne:Yep. I was on a half a half out of my mouth and
didn't
Steve:know
Stephen:if I could keep going. Like most, a lot of people know him from the sixth sense. Yes. He
Steve:sees dead people. No, the kids sees dead people and he just happens to see Bruce Willis. And that's definitely not a coincidence. Yes.
Stephen:And of course there's Goldie Hawn is Helen Sharp and I
Steve:guessed, I bet with her, your favorite other movie is
Stephen:I love her in overboard. Like overboard is another happy film for me that I love the chemistry that she incurred have. Well, cause that's a real,
Brianne:absolutely. Also his character in that is absolutely hilarious that the movie is really
Stephen:joyful. Yeah, it is. And I really wish that skip the remake.
Steve:Yeah. Yeah. Don't watch the remake of that. I didn't know.
Stephen:There was one, are they gender swapped? The overboard people. Yeah. I love Anna
Steve:Faris, but it just wasn't her best work
Stephen:and it, it, it didn't feel it would be a purge. Yeah. It didn't feel like the original overboard is endearing. Like you love those kids. You love this relationship that they have, like, whenever she goes to the school to stand up for her kids and they she's like, do you see that they all have poison Oak? Like that type of performance and heart and the new one doesn't have, it was going more for the
Steve:ladders. Yeah. Yes. But all these great creative minds and actors and actresses got together to create this movie that did not go exactly as planned. It had a budget of$55 million and had some amazing special effects at the time, but only in a box office of 149 million. It came out that weekend against Buffy the vampire Slayer, the movie. And I agree that this one should have won, even though I'm a huge Buffy fan, this one, this movie's better than the Buffy movie.
Stephen:And I was always shocked back then when the movie was getting panned by critics and things. And it's another one of those, like my whole cuss Pocus, where back then also panned didn't do well in the theaters. Now this one also cult classic revered culturally in the gay community and the performance theater community. Like this is looked at as something to be proud of.
And,
Steve:and speaking of it, being in the queer community, we actually saw a, but I think it was even before I watched this movie, because the first time I watched it was with you, I saw a death, becomes her theme to runway on season seven of RuPaul's drag race.
Stephen:And that like, I love when drag race will. Do callbacks to things that are important parts of it, of queer culture. Yes,
Steve:exactly. And Tom Campbell, the executive producer, when he was reflecting on that runway and why they chose it. He said of the two main characters they're fighting for beauty. They are against the system. They are also villains, but we understand their complexity. We root for the undead divas because they're trying to win a game. That's rigged against
Stephen:them. This was another movie where I'm like, we'll get to the ending. It's not the ending I wanted because I wanted them to win. Like there was no part of me that wanted it to end how it did. It's still funny and everything like that. But I was like, they need to succeed. I want things to go well for them, they deserve it.
Steve:Yes. And I mean, what do you think of like that comment or like how it fits into the queer culture?
Brianne:I think fabulous newness is as fabulousness does. I think that, although it took a minute for it to, to be appreciated across the board I think longevity has something to say here. And also, although it might be more common that people in queer culture can recite lines from the movie that they've seen it so many times it's undeniable that a lot of people can recognize the film or even just a couple of the really famous one-liners from the film. That it's also not just longevity, but the variety and the span that it has now, you know, it, it, it caught up to it's a claim. And though the, the deserved to claim, not the, you know, not the initial reaction, perhaps
Steve:agreed. I was gonna say, do you have a favorite quote out of all the quotes?
Brianne:I, you know, I have two parts that are really kind of idealistic for me, but one of my favorites always is I can see right through love
Steve:that.
Stephen:I mean, that is one of the ones that I will still quote to this day where she's like, you're a fraud, Helen, you're a walking lie and I can see right. And her line delivery on that is perfect. You know mine because I use it on people on the daily. You brought this on yourself, brought this on yourself right before Madeline shoots Helen. And like, there are so many times where like one of my take-downs of someone at the, you know, the Goldilocks story. Yes. I, you brought this on yourself. Yeah. And sometimes people do and you got to check them. Yes. What I thought was kind of interesting that in 2017 it looked like they were workshopping and trying to write and build a Broadway musical. Starring Christian Chenowith, most likely as the Madeline Ashton character would have been awesome would have been amazing. She could have pulled that off very well. COVID ended a lot of shows that were in the works. I mean, that's like one of my new favorite musicals that started on the west end in his family making it to the U S this fall was the six based on Henry, the eighth's wives. Oh yes. And it's it's fantastic. It's done as if they were, they're kind of the spice girls and they're putting on a one night only show and it's done, like where they're pop divas putting on are. It's fantastic. And so it's hitting Broadway this fall and COVID took a lot from us, but we're getting it back. Yes.
Steve:And then COVID can take from us. Those are favorite movies of all time. Yes. I gave us the chance to watch them over and over again. And this one, for those of you who haven't watched it in a while though, IMDBs sums it up as. When a woman learns of an immortality treatment, she sees it as a method of outdoing, her longtime rival. Now, babe, are you ready to tear that to pieces?
Stephen:That is such a bad summary of this movie. The summary would be very complex, but to do an overarching thing, you could say to fight the double standards of beauty and to go against massage money, two women will go to any links to get what they want, including immortality. Yes, because I think they're fighting the double standards and they're fighting misogyny in this movie and it, it's not like we know women are always, you know, men get our age gracefully because the gray hair and everything, it's just a sign of dignity, dignity, and you look so Devin air. A woman shows some wrinkles and oh, are you feeling okay? You look tired. Like what they off, that's not fair. And so this movie is a really good commentary on the unfortunate ways that those pressures are put on women from weight to age to it. Any thing like that. Yeah. And
Steve:I mean, it doesn't hit anyone harder than in this movie, Madeline. She, you know, it starts off 14 years overall before the most of the movie happens. It starts with her as a young star with doing a performance on Broadway,
Stephen:which is a version of the sweet bird of youth. And it's because it's in the seventies, it has a whole disco theme of If she does the hustle, she does
Brianne:Diamonds are a girl's best
Stephen:friend, you know, Bannister, even though she was young enough at that time, like after she's done with the performance, she's looking in the mirror and she's wrinkled, wrinkled a little Scott star. I hope they never see the scars, like, because she's an actress. And especially back
Steve:then the standards of beauty and
Stephen:aging, it's honestly only until recently with like Nicole Kidman, Reese Witherspoon and stuff who are buying properties for women of a certain age and finding writers and directors and producing it themselves, putting up their own money. Like big little lies like that. Wouldn't have gotten made five years ago with a bunch of women in their forties and fifties that wouldn't have been done. And I mean, this is a perfect example of that, that, you know, people are leaving the show and they're saying, talk about waking the dead Madeline, Ashton. Oh, I'm so glad you wanted to leave like that.
Brianne:In fact, part of the hilarity and the foreboding of the movie is that the only person who stands up and applause is, is earnest Bruce of, as other people
Stephen:are walking out throughout the
Steve:performance, her dear friend Helen's
Stephen:fiance. Yes. Because Helen knows that she needs to introduce the men in her life to Madeline Ashton, to see if they can pass the Madeline Ashton test it. Does he pass babe? He does not because Madeline automatically at that point, earnest Manville is a world renowned plastic surgeon. He's going places. He's going places. And Madeline, I mean, she's already there with the whole, so Dr. Menville do you think I need your help? And like she's already laying it on big. She goes to his office to bring champagne and a picnic and Menville his artists. It's all like Helen. There's nothing to be jealous of. It, it was a business appointment for crying out loud and Helen is them getting married because Helen was like, I really need you to pass. Like, don't do this to me. And so there's
Steve:a seven year time jump, send us that seven years. Treat
Stephen:Helen not good. That
Brianne:is one of my favorite visual scenes in the movie because you see. Yeah. I mean, well, it's first, first it starts with the police knocking on on a,
Stephen:well, it starts, it starts with this, but, and
Brianne:the, but is in the
Stephen:kitchen and then she leans up, she opens a cabinet and there's a cat. And the only thing in the cabinet is cake icing, which she eats
Brianne:with her hands, four fingered, hand scoop, and then full time hung.
Steve:Lik yeah. While she's watching on repeat of Madeline, Ashton and the police break down our door and get her committed
Stephen:yet because she hasn't been paying her rent. And all she keeps doing is rewatching the scene where Madeline is choke till she's dead in the movie. And it's kind of, it looks like a takeoff on rear window. The Hitchcock film. And so she ends up going to a mental institution where I love the casting right here, because her therapist is Elaina Reed hall, who was Olivia on Sesame street and rose on 2, 2 7, which I grew up with Sesame street. And then I grew up with two to seven, you know, maybe it's me fan drop. And so I love her. They're in, you know, they're well, we haven't heard from you recently, Helen, is there anything you'd like to discuss? Yes. I'd like to talk about Madeline and everybody goes crazy. And Elena Reed hall yells at her and says, you we're not any of us going to get any rest until you can get past Madeline, Ashton. And she goes, you're right. You're absolutely right. Another seven year time jump. Yes.
Steve:And in the seven years, what happens
Stephen:to Helen? Well, we don't know yet, except that all of a sudden we see someone who kind of looks like Merril laying in bed and with all these puffy things under her eyes and her assistant from when she was on Broadway comes in and she starts pressing the button so that the blinds is raised. And combining Madam, you look absolutely marvelous. Hey, wait a minute. Aren't you forgetting something? Well, it's only Thursday. You told me just to say, well, nevermind that I think I need to hear it every morning. Very well. Oh, Madam, you look good every day. Thank you, rose. Thank you very much. Madeline has not aged well in those seven years. No, she has
Steve:not. Not only that, but she is still married to Ernest, but he is a bumbling drunk
Stephen:mortician. Yes, he is now an undertaker who has taken his ability with plastic surgery to make people look their best as they're going in the ground. And the first thing we hear of Helen Sharp is when rose brings an invitation to Helen Sharp's book party that night in LA and Madeline, you know, she's not. She wants to go just because of the rivalry and she wants to rub it in her face because the last thing she had heard about Helen or possibly seen of Helen was that Helen was obscenely
Steve:overweight, and then she was so excited to fat shamer. Cause this was remember
Stephen:in the nineties and when that was absolutely okay. And well, it was never okay. But it was socially acceptable. Right. And you know, she runs off to the plastic surgeons office that is a kind of elite underground where they're
Steve:like, you can, what, you can only get the surgery once a year. And you got like a couple of weeks ago.
Stephen:Well, it's been that long already. It was just three weeks ago, Matt.
Brianne:Yes, that that whole office has just very surreal a theorial you know, feeling to it that almost. Reminds me of death's waiting room in beetle juice in this weird, the way it's lit and the, the way everyone's acting. And it's yet doors closing randomly and people it's so weirdly cool.
Stephen:I
Steve:was like, I wonder, like, is that what it's like to get work done? I don't know. I,
Brianne:I think it, it's more a foreshadowing of the peculiarity of what she'll learn or what will be brought to her attention there that that place
Stephen:holds secrets. And I love to say, and
Steve:when she was looking for new ways, she actually had a guy with us and we saw
Stephen:the first thing ever. Yes. So whenever the person there was like, would you like a collagen buff? I commented buff. Why don't you just tell me to wash with soap and water? And she goes, you know, money is no object. And then all of a sudden Mr. Seagal is behind and the girl that had had the French accent, all of a sudden sounds like she's from Jersey. Yeah. I'm sobbing Mr. Chagall. I didn't know that you were there, just go away. And he goes, I heard your little joke about money being no object. That was no joke. And do you know Liesel Von rumen? No, I think not, not very many people do. It's a very select group. And he has this thing that we just saw for the first time. And I've literally seen this movie 54 times where his eyelid can't stay, can't stay open. It keeps going down and he has to kind of like trick it into going back up. And he does it several times in the scene. Yeah. And that is foreshadowing.
Steve:That's great. Yeah. He's
Stephen:already dead. Yeah. He's absolutely dead.
Steve:Yes. And so with these people after the time jump and seeing how, and we see that she is, she looks younger than ever and beautiful than
Stephen:ever. Right. Sexy and sensual. And the red in her hair. There needs to be a study on that color. It's very Jessica rabbit. Oh. And, and like the dress she's wearing. And as soon as Madeline Caesar, she goes, we're leaving and nurse's like, nonsense, let's go say hi. I'll go. And there's a great juxtaposition because whenever Helen first went to see Madeline at the play, Helen or Madeline had made sure she had a lot of red lipstick on and kissed Helen's cheek to leave a lipstick imprint at the play. And then that night at the book party, Helen had the deep red and she kisses Madeleine, and she returns the favor because the power has shifted completely. And they both go through these great conversations. Helen and Madeline, where Helen's like, Madeline, I never blamed you. You didn't steal him. He went to you and then she's talking to Ernest earnest. I didn't blame you. She stole you from me. She's a woman. She's just a woman earnest and Andy from Newark for God's sake. And like. As all of us that are watching the movie at that point with this rivalry, obviously we know that Merrill doesn't really care for Ernest anymore because he was going, he was, she says, you're dressed and he goes, work ghoul. Like they don't like each other anymore because he said, is it up?
Yeah,
Brianne:I think she never did. I think honestly, her emo the entire time was just for, from
Steve:freeway.
Stephen:Yeah. Or I hurt you on purpose. Yeah. Like it was a mix
Steve:of that and that, and the work, but then the two together of just building her up. While also taking someone else down with just a two for one,
Brianne:it was a joy for her to make men feel that Madeline
Steve:cause especially after those two time jumps, I mean, I can maybe see why would these, both women were fighting over him at first, but I mean, who wants like a drunk alcoholic, sloppy
Stephen:mess. Flacid undertaker. Yeah.
Steve:He's such
Brianne:a great character.
Stephen:Oh, and, and it like, that's some of his best acting work, honestly, because he goes full into this character as well. Like there's a lot of people that will say Bruce Wallace isn't in that movie because he never wants, does he look like Bruce Willis? He
Brianne:also does a phenomenal switch where you think of him as the bumbling drunk fool. And then really he's the, you know, he's the mastermind of some
Steve:things and yes, because I mean, after seeing how great Helen worked Madeline, finally, it does a grease out to Liesel
Stephen:because she gets embarrassed. She had been having this man on the side named Dakota. And she thought that there was actually romance between she and Dakota, where Dakota was just enjoying being taken care of and being a kept man. And he embarrassed her because he has a woman that he's seeing is young and beautiful. And yeah. And so she got, decides to go see Liesl Von. Rumen played so brilliantly by Isabella Rossellini
Brianne:that I have to say is an imprint on my mind. I am never willing to let go
Steve:of no, no, I know. Cause I saw you,
Brianne:oh God. The, the sleek Bob and for naked pop with the Jules just covering her chest and the tides are wrong with the dagger. There is nothing.
Stephen:Yeah. And what I love about that, and I don't know if it was. Like a Robert Zemeckis nod to her or not, but Elvira's black dress. She always the high cut, but she always has dagger at the waist. And whenever she put her dagger in there, it was like, oh, what an Elvira look that hat. Oh, it's so just so she gives her the potion and this is some, and I saw this where they explained it on good morning, America. When the movie was coming out with the green screen, thinks that they had stage hands wearing the green outfits. And so whenever Merrill is in front of the mirror, they had the guys stand there and they moved her butt and breasts up and into position. And so it was, that was actually her
Steve:being felt up by
Stephen:four individuals. Yeah. It was one on each side for each of the things and they were able to green those guys out and she goes, it was definitely an experience, but she goes, that sounds like a party to me. The end result was just, I mean, that's fantastic. And the sound effect when the breasts go into place. Yeah. So it's so, and she gets home and while she's been gone, how Helen has gone over and
Steve:you love her as her sneaking in, I mean,
Brianne:she's rocking a Baret and knees tight black leather pants and she hops the fence.
Stephen:Because she's over there and she's coming up with the plan of how they're going to kill Madeline by using the alcohol based sedative on one of every glass, so that she'll pass out, they'll be able to take her up to Mulholland drive. They can call the police and say, there's a woman swerving. There's a drunk woman, swerving, dangerously, close to the edge up on Mulholland. The car will go over. By the time they check her blood alcohol level, the drug will have worn off and they'll think it was just another drunk driving accident. She had this coming and that the case will be closed. And they think the plan is all set. And Madeline comes Helen leaves. Madeline comes back feeling like a
Steve:million bucks and has all the bluster in the world with her new found beauty. And that's when she goes off and really gives earnest a piece of her mind.
Stephen:And when he goes Did you do something different with your hair? She goes, what? An eye. And they start getting into an argument and he goes, you know, I'm not going to take it anymore. Yes, you, are you going to take everything I've got to have? Because you're just a flat, I said, what, what did you call me? Flash said, boozy undertaker, who has less going on downstairs than his clients do. Hell I shouldn't go with one of your clients. At least I'd have something stiff. And he grabs her by the throat and he holds her out and she's on the edge of the steps. And she has on these heels and they're slick and her that's
Steve:so good. I was gonna say, and they, the longest, longest, almost fall I've ever
Stephen:seen. And then he's about to reach out and help her. And she goes, do it wimp. And he just tips. Her and she falls back and it's this crack. Oh, all down the stairs. And she breaks her neck. She breaks everything. And you hear all these bones breaking because it's a horribly long marble staircase and bounces. So many times I was going
Steve:to say, and I swear, they added like two more marble staircase
Stephen:because the amount of bumps that she takes, it seems too long for the size of that. Exactly.
Steve:But I didn't mind at all, either make those
Stephen:internal. And so he gets on the phone and he calls Helen and he's like, I did it. She was saying such vile things to me. And I did it. I pushed her down the stairs and Helen says, Ernest, what part of the plan? Didn't you understand? We went over it. Three times three times earnest and all of a sudden she's on the phone with her. And in the background, she gets up and starts walking towards him, tighter
Brianne:coming to life. After you've whacked it with some newspaper,
Stephen:you just see that
Brianne:the blurred image in the background of a body writing itself, but with the upper half clearly
Steve:wrong
Brianne:jacked up. Okay.
Stephen:She gets it and she scares him and he ripped the phone out of the wall. And like, he's looking at her and Linda Blair style neck. Yeah. And and she goes, yeah, she goes, earnest my ass. I can see my ass and he goes, and there's something really wrong with your neck too. And she goes, well, fix it. And he goes, I wouldn't know where to start. And she goes, oh. And so she twists her head around and it bounces
Steve:Armstrong was gonna say that scene though, with the special effects was out of her neck. I was going to say, but even like what, like with her head on backwards and like, she would like take what she would think was a step forward, but it
Stephen:was falling down that way. And she tries to sit on the piano bench and misses it.
Steve:And yeah, just the choreography of that and the graphical effects I just was like, that was just accommodating.
Brianne:Yeah. Physical comedy and, and body acting like, you know,
Steve:that space when she picks up her head and, and
Stephen:plops it back down into place. But this is Meryl Streep from, you know, a Dingo ate my baby and out of Africa and. Not somebody that you would equate with brilliant physical comedy.
Brianne:She, you know, my favorite, the favorite line we've already mentioned, I can see right through you. You know, I think the part that I love so much is the image of her bending forward and covering her head and just flipping her hair while doing it in this sassy. Fuck you kind of way as she does it. That just is what I call the chef's kiss. Right? Yeah.
Stephen:I love he. So he runs her to the emergency room. We find out she's dead because the doctor is, you know, looking at her and, and it's brilliant the way they do this. They put her in a really big jacket and the doctor holds up her arm and she goes, you know, and then there's something wrong with my wrist. And he goes, well, does this hurt? And he bends it. She goes, no, he goes, what about this bins? More? No. And he bends it all the way. So that her hand is almost where her fingers are touching her forearm the other way. And she goes, And he goes, that doesn't hurt. No, I told you that it doesn't hurt. And
Steve:like, you can tell that it was because there was like the other hand or the special effects prop underneath it. Yeah.
Stephen:Yeah. Because she's wearing the bigger jacket so that her regular arm is underneath and this is just prosthetic, even just
Steve:love, like the silent comedy of him trying to hear her breathing and then like he checks his own and then like he throws them out thermometer
Brianne:in her mouth. Mind you as she's you know, the medical term is cyanotic, right? She's turning gray.
Stephen:Blue. Yeah. Yeah. Because, and she is like, they're in the emergency room. Her skin tone is a gray blue. And the doctor was like, you know, your heart, isn't beating your temperature's under 80 degrees. And The doctor leaves and earnest
Steve:because it didn't to take earnest out, to talk to him about it. And then Ernest comes back and she's gone.
Stephen:Yeah. Ernest went to go get another doctor for help. And he sees that the doctor that just checked on Madeline has died because of a heart attack. And he goes in and the room's empty. He goes, where's, my wife will serve with these things happen. No. Where did you take my wife? She's dead, sir. He's in the morgue. The morgue. She's going to be so furious. Yes.
Steve:He gets her home. He can take, he gets
Stephen:her all set up again. That's when Helen starts watching and like FA like, what are you doing? And sees that he goes to the mortuary where he works to get formaldehyde and he gets the paint and everything. And Madeline's laying out on the pool table while he's spray painter, because we found out in the scene at the book party that the reason that his. Corpses look so good before they're buried is because he uses mannequin spray paint on the, because human pores are so dry. You practically have to use a grinder to get a color in there. And so mannequin paint works just as well. So he's using all of his painting tools to make Madeline look human. And this is when Helen gets back in, she shows up in the house with the whole wrap around and the Baret and she's carrying a tarp and yes, just drops it all to the floor. And what are you doing with her earnest? And he's like, she's alive. And he, and Helen's all like, well, if she's alive, tell her to come down here and kiss me on the kiss, you on the what? Yeah. And all of a sudden shit, and they come down. And they start having their, like their rivalry is now at a fever pitch because battling has heard that they had been plotting. Even if she hadn't fallen down the stairs, they were going to kill her. And but the thing that set her off, because Helen goes she's a home wrecker, she's a bad person and she's a bad actress. That was what did it. It was right there. She grabbed the shotgun. Yup. She grabs it. She goes through grabs. The shotgun comes up to Helen and says, you problem. I brought this on yourself. Like we think, oh shit, now Helen's dead. And Madeline's all like, you're going to help me bury her in death valley. I will do no such thing. Oh, really? Really, what if there's a call from the cops that someone is fallen down the stairs and the cops show up and find me there ain't nobody can play dead like me or
Steve:yeah, with that. I like, I love how the, the first one where we see Madeline come back to life, it's like in the far background and blurry, but this time when we see Helen kind of come back to life and to me where it's like, she's like the camera's like just inches behind her. So we see that visual gag of her standing up on the side and
Stephen:the water just whores out
Steve:of the hole. And then she turns around and you see that there's a giant hole,
Stephen:right. And the others. And she goes, look at me RNs and they start scrambling and backing away. Just look at me, I'm soaking wet. And he goes, there's something seems to be wrong with your stomach. But you're still alive. And that's when Madeline puts two and two together and realizes that she must have taken the potion. And then there's the whole conversation of you took the potion. You took the potion. And Ernest is like, I don't think this is a miracle after all. They, they finally come to terms like they go head to head now with their rivalry.
Steve:She throws the stick through the hall,
Stephen:they have their shovels and they're doing the gel stick. And that's the, from my fan on guard bitch. And they come to terms because Madeline has always been mad because Helen, she felt Helen thought she was cheap. Yes. And classless and Helen was always mad because she believed. Madeline hurt her on purpose. They didn't say admit
Steve:it once they admit it and say it it out loud and makes it real. And it helps heal those wounds.
Stephen:Right. But as you had said, we have the great physical comedy things of the javelin throw.
Steve:It's just so brilliant. The way that they work together,
Brianne:Helen sits on the couch intentionally and allows it to pass through that dinner plate sized
Stephen:hole in her belly. It's like, this is stupid. We can't even hurt each other. And we can't even feel pain. And Helen goes, I'll tell you about pain and takes the shovel and pounds. Merrill's head rack into her chest cavity and she has to she has to pull it back out and it bounces because of the spines all severed.
Steve:Yeah. It's just, it's so funny. So I know that at that point, that's when they decide that earnest needs the potion to cause earnest can keep them both looking young and beautiful forever. Yes. And he's going to take it the night of Giant party with all of Liesel's friends and that she's helped out along the way,
Stephen:all the people over the years, because Lisa had already told us that, you know, you take the potion and you can have 10 years, 10 years of beauty and fame, but then you must fade from society. You can either go into hiding, fake your own death. Or as one of my clients once said, I have to be alone, which was Greta Garbo. And who were some of the other famous people that we see at the party?
Steve:The one that you can't miss is Elvis because they do a direct call out to
Stephen:him because, you know, back in the nineties that they were
Steve:like, you know, and one of you needs to stop showing up in public
Stephen:at shopping malls things. Yeah, because that was always you'd go to the grocery store and own the national Inquirer. Elvis scene at Iowa shopping mall. And Andy Warhol was there with Marilyn Monroe, sexy. Jim Morrison, Jim Morrison was at the pool and James Dean was outside leaving the party. And you know, all these people that died young. Yes.
Steve:And the, the issue though, is that no matter how hard they wanted Ernest to join the ranks, Ernest decides that he doesn't want to live forever.
Stephen:No, and his reasoning is a logical reasoning. He goes, but what I do, everyone in she's like, but you never grow old. But everyone around me would like, what would I do spend the rest of my life with Madeline and Helen? I was gonna say, well, what would you too, babe? You know, I've always like, I've always been a fan of this movie vampires, things like that, you know, the whole live forever thing. And. I think that just like you see in true blood and some stuff like that, you would need to have an undead forever family that you would be okay. Spending hundreds of years with. Yeah.
Steve:What about you, Brian? What did you take a post that would let you live forever and stay young?
Brianne:You know, I think that I'm a person who believes that we, that we can come back a few times. So I've always subscribed to the notion that I used to be something else. And now I'm this and I can be something again. I, you know, so. I, I, I'm not attached to the idea of living this life forever as this person in this, in this
Steve:bag of
Stephen:skin. What
about
Steve:you, honey? I have a feeling that, I mean, if someone were to offer me it's me and I had to take it today, I'd say no, but I would like to take it home with me and make like a five-year plan to get my ass into shape, you know, get some, you know, get some work done, like get my body to where I need to be to live forever. And also by that time, making sure that there's going to be more people like me so I can build that community or found family
Stephen:this potion. Yeah. It does create your best body. Well,
Steve:yeah, they give it to me now. I would take it. I mean, even if I have to like put a charge on the credit card, I'll, I'll, I'll pay it off. I promise.
Stephen:Well, as Liesel said that the price is different for everybody Helen paid a pittance compared to what Merrill paid. Yes. So it would be, I.
Steve:I also wonder, and that always also alluded me that there was also more than just money sometimes can be the price.
Stephen:I mean, I could definitely see that because I always wonder, like, so does she have a moral code with who she would give it to, or would you have people like the
Steve:hopped in and was like, Hey, yo, I got some money from these countries. Can you, can you help me live forever? Do you think? She'd say like, no, sorry. You're you're Hitler. You
Stephen:fucking suck. I was going to go with the north Korean family, the John Yeah, all that. Kim, John and Kim. John, what? Ill?
Steve:I would hope she'd say no, thank you. I would hope
Stephen:so too. I would, I would think that she has more of a moral code than that because it is a select group.
Steve:I wonder if fiance took it.
Stephen:She does look
Steve:fantastic. And she
Stephen:has an age. Well, Angela Bassett hasn't either. And my goodness, I mean, not to give Angela Bassett's age away, but she's on 9 1 1, and she looks like
Steve:she's in the, for her
Stephen:she's in her forties.
Brianne:I have to tell you, she plays such a phenomenal character. And one of my other favorite movies ever, which is strange days, I'm with Ralph fines and Juliette Lewis, she plays his chauffeur and his bodyguard and she is just a bad mama JAMA. I mean, tell you what.
Stephen:So the, as we were saying, Ernest goes to Liesel's that night to take the potion. He decides not to take it tries to escape,
Steve:he's willing to die, but he ends up falling into the pool was just awesome. Like, this is the great visual gag of him falling and falling and through the
Stephen:glass roof, which is a glass roof of a recreation of the creation of Adam with God and Adam touching fingers almost. And he almost took it again, like he almost took it with Liesel and then changed his mind and then to save his life, he almost took it until the women prove that they didn't want him around for him. They just wanted his work. So he dropped it, it shatters, he falls through escapes. That's where we see Jim Morrison at the pool. He steals James Dean's car and runs away the girls get back to the house. He's not there. And they already see that they're appealing. The paint is coming off and it's a matter of upkeep. Yeah. I'll paint your ass. You paint mine.
Steve:Yes. And they do that for 37 years and it ends at earnest funeral and they, they, I would say I was very proud of this when I wrote it out that they fall to pieces at a time. The funeral, not emotionally though. No, they they're actually in the, in the back aisle, fully draped over in their veil. So people can't see their faces and give each other a hard time. Cause they lost the paint cans
Stephen:and earnest is someone who will live forever, blah, blah, blah. Let's get outta here. And like. Goldie had been crying because at one point she was the only one that truly loved earnest. So him passing was still hard on her, so she was crying, but it made all of her paint run and her chin looked all wonky. Like they have not been, they've been doing their bare minimum. They're doing their best. They're doing their best. It's not good that
Steve:neither of them, 37 years have been rough. There has been more going on than just natural
Stephen:decay. And they, they, you know, where's the spray paint can, I don't know. I lost it. Well, where was the last place you saw it? Has that ever worked when you asked me where the last place I saw it was? Yes. Whenever you lost your index finger, I did not lose it. It broke off that's cause you always crack your knuckles and then Goldie steps on the spray paint can, and it's a recreation of when Meryl was on the edge of the steps and her legs weren't working and she was going to fall. So Goldie's about to fall. And you see that Merrill is like, I think I'm going to, yes,
Steve:but two quick Helen grabs Madeline's are in and pulls her down with her. And they shatter like porcelain
Stephen:dolls. And the final line of the movie Helen's head goes over by Madeline's head and says, do you remember where you parked the car? And the movie is brilliant. I like, because I wanted them to win. I wish he had taken the potion. They could have kept him tied up and just made him paint them forever. And they could have lived a wonderful life. I see that, you know, also in terms of a morality thing, they can't let them win. But how do you think this does in terms of discussing double standards in beauty for women versus men?
Steve:Well, I mean, I feel like that, I mean, we, we even alluded to in a recent episode, how you always have in like sitcoms and everything that the trope of the short fat balding man with the beautiful supermodel wife. And that's how, like, because these shows are written by these guys that feel like, you know, that's the ideal woman that they want, that they want to get, but, you know, they don't expect to be able to put in the effort themselves to look deserving of a woman of that beauty, so to speak. But what do you see of it from a female perspective? That's a really
Brianne:tough thing for me to, to think about. I, at my own personal journey with my body has been unusual because age has not chronologically affected where I've reached kind of my prime, I I've, I've kind of waxed and waned and in my look and my level of health at, at different times. And so I think my perception is skewed in the, in the experience that I've had. I can absolutely understand that. Especially this movie emphasizes the desire for maintaining the image that brought you a level of success. Right. But, you know, Madeline's obsession with her age and her appearance is not just based off of, you know, scoring young guys like Dakota. It's about, you know, her, the time in which she was most inspired and successful. And I think that that's not just a self-image thing a lot, especially in the Hollywood business, but it's a matter of how many, you know job opportunities are presented you as a result of that. So I do really appreciate what Steven said before about you know, like Reese Witherspoon's production company, catering to women who are writing screenplays, acting, directing, and funneling her efforts towards. You know, the wisdom over the, you know, the, the outside, the, the visual.
Stephen:I can also see, we talk about men versus women, but also this would work with the gay community because you can age out of the gay community because the younger men, after a certain age, you are past their prime for them.
Steve:Yeah. And it's interesting. Cause I'm also noticing that then there's also this huge group of senior people in the LGBT community that band together. So it's almost like from what I'm seeing, at least now that I'm entering, like into my mid thirties and you're being in your early forties, that there's almost like this kind of forgotten couple of decades where like, from like 30 to 60, like we're, there's no like group.
Stephen:Yeah. And I could see if this movie was ever redone. One of the parts of the main characters could easily be done with. A gay man. Yeah. And how, you know, they are, you know, working hard at the gym, but it's not working enough. And they're like, the Madeline part could be a gay man easily and both parts
Steve:could be easily, easily be. Yeah. And I, I mean with that, I mean, it is, it's funny because I knew that we all loved it being, you know, LGBT and stuff, but going into the research of it, I looked into up the word camp because I mean, this movie is the definition of camp. Would you not
Stephen:agree because it's, it's a movie that knows exactly what it is. It goes for the absurd in parts. It's witty, it's sardonic. It's sarcastic like this. I would call it. Hi camp. Yes.
Steve:And so before we went into my little deep dive into what camp is, as it's defined, what would, how would you have defined camp a couple of weeks ago? For listeners
Stephen:for me, camp is something that takes a larger than life. Look at real things and does it in a way where they're portrayal of that more than, than thing, whether it's a person, an activity or something is portrayed in all seriousness, like they know what they're doing, but they're portraying that larger than life. Witty. Fabulous. Just too much thing as just what it is, because the best camp for me is the ones that go all in and know what they're doing. Yes.
Steve:I agree. I know that art and pop culture.com defines campus and aesthetic sensibility that regard something as appealing or humorous because of its deliberate ridiculousness. Absolutely. Yes. And so with that though, the, the word its first usage appeared in 1909. So it is an older word. It was derived from the slang term, say camper, which means to pose an exaggerated fashion. French. I like that too. Yes. However, it was quickly then moved over into the Oxford English dictionary that year to find it as ostentatious exaggerated effected the attrical of feminine or homosexual pertaining to characteristic of homosexuals.
Stephen:I'm also fine with that because gay gay, gay, if anybody deserves to own camp, I say we should own it.
Brianne:I'll take it. I mean, if it's about my best poses as well, then yeah. I'll take
Steve:that. Yeah. I mean, of course they cover their ass now by saying that they admit the definition as etymology. Etymologically
Stephen:obscure. Good job with that pronunciation. That's a hard
Steve:word. I know. That's my$5 word of the episode. I think that's a$10 word. Fancy bitch. 8 27 50. For that. Yes. In the 1970s, they did update the definition in the dictionary. It's comprised of being Nally, artifice, mediocrity, and ostentation. So extreme as to have a perversely sophisticated appeal.
Brianne:I'm perversely sophisticated.
Steve:Exactly. I'll take perversely sophisticated. I don't like the words like banality
Stephen:mediocrity. Mediocrity has nothing to do with camp. Yes. So,
Steve:yeah, I, I
Brianne:disagree with that because it's also almost in conflict saying before that it is, it is, it is deliberately and knowingly ridiculous. So saying it's mediocre is, is implying that it goes somewhere and that in the middle, when really it's
Steve:an extreme, the only thing I could think of, and they were kind of like based it off of was the fact that it never was like considered like triple a like status or tiers in terms of its recognition. It's reckoned recognized as a mediocre form of performance. But I don't agree with that. It's a mediocre performer for performance. We love our camp.
Stephen:Well, and the next thing you have in there, the difference between naive and deliberate camp. And so this is deliberate camp. Yes. Like
Steve:everyone involved in this knew what they were doing was so over the top, ridiculous. And they were having the time of their life doing it,
Stephen:or versions of naive camp would be like Kelly Clarkson's movie from Justin to Kelly it's fabulous camp. It wasn't intending to be, but the best example is Showgirls. Showgirls was not trying to be what it is now considered as fabulous camp that gay men love to watch. That's naive.
Steve:Yes. Cause naive camp has when they met, they, all the writers think that that's serious. Like they're not in on the joke that we all think is funny about it.
Stephen:Like Cruella Corella was deliberate.
Steve:Yes. They knew that when they put Horace into the full drag that that's what all the gays are going to be doing this Halloween. And they were okay
Stephen:with that. And like the baronesses performance or Emma Stone, just with some of her like reactions and face things. Watch it again. I know it's really good, but that's deliberate camp. And I say, I, in my heart, I have a place for aged naive camp. Like the things like from Justin to Kelly and show girls that have aged. And now you're like, that's a lot of fun. And a lot of times they get called co classics now.
Steve:Yes, exactly. I mean, what are some other examples of campy movies or things that you like for you? You know?
Brianne:I don't know that I, I have such an affinity towards can't be you know, movies in general. I don't know. I,
Steve:that's not much to special for
Brianne:you. This one is special for me because of idolized, some of the characters and, and you know how I, like I said, how it gives me inspiration for my creativity, but I will say that my general go-to is you know, more of like the old school mobster flicks, you know, if I, if I had to pick a movie to also watch every time I, I could, it would be no casino.
Stephen:Oh, like to Wong foo and serial mom are good examples of deliberate camp. Yes. Valley of the dolls is naive camp. Yes. Because the valley of the dolls, they thought they were creating something very specific with a message and. They didn't or Romy and Michele. That was deliberate.
Steve:Yes. And so I love camp in general. And so it just was fine with this to take a chance to learn more about the history behind camp. And
Stephen:I have to throw out a nod to my favorite queen of Kings yes. Elvira. Yeah, of course. Peanuts, deliberate,
Steve:everything she buys. Yes. Yeah. And so, you know, what is also camp at times?
Stephen:Our fans, our
Steve:podcasts us can be campy at times we can, whether it's deliberate camper, naive camp, I hope it's deliberate.
Stephen:yeah. I hope that like 20 years from now some alien race, isn't watching this and, or listening to this and they're like, oh, they thought that was fun.
Steve:Yes. I'll take it. If we're having people listen to us 20 years from now, for those of you listening to us now, while we're still around and kicking, we'd love to hear from you, how would they join in conversation about this
Stephen:episode? Well, one of the best ways is that we're on all the socials. We, you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at happy life
Steve:pod. And if you want to reach us directly and tell us a secret email us@happylifepodatgmail.com,
Stephen:and that is always a great way. And. Bring him. If anybody wanted to find you in your professional life, what would be a way they could find you?
Brianne:Well, you know, I'll have to answer that twice because we, we introduced me as Dr. Brianne Horvath, right? Who is the practitioner and owner of Opendoor acupuncture in downtown Sarasota. You can find the office on Facebook and on Instagram Opendoor, Accu or you can reach me at Opendoor, Accu it's acu@gmail.com.
Steve:So you keep my heavy and well healthy. Yeah. And but for those other means, I was going to say, because we now have about 80% of our listeners are from outside the Sarasota area. And so if they want to follow a really hot Instagram.
Brianne:So when I, when I mentioned that I got inspiration for my character and, and kind of her ego and her, her camp and her. You know, everything that voodoo Von boom boom is from this movie that is me talking about my, my passion in life, which has become a second job for me. But check out voodoo Von boom, boom on Instagram and Facebook. And you'll see some work in, in beautiful areas of burlesque and event and entertainment. And it's it's something I really like,
Steve:I was gonna say, if you're ever in the need of, of some campy accessories. Absolutely. I have some beautiful hand crafted individual unique pieces for performers.
Brianne:Absolutely. Yes. I'm actually really excited to be working on a very campy fo for be dazzled, poodle boa.
Steve:Wow. That's just getting me turned on, hearing about it.
Brianne:You already have one. I know I have to, we'll have to discuss that. And yours.
Stephen:I have a
Steve:doubt, speaking of Cruella. Yes. So yes, I'll make sure to link over to that in our show notes as well, but thank you. Thank you for coming back. We always love having you on thank you so much. And thank you listeners for listening to us for another episode of a lifetime of happiness. And until next time stay happy.