A Lifetime of Happiness: Movies, TV, and Video Games

Hocus Pocus (1993)

• Steve Bennet-Martin, Stephen Martin-Bennet, Ronnie Diamond • Season 1 • Episode 91

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The Steves bring back Ronnie Diamond to discuss the 1993 cult-classic Hocus Pocus! Topics during the discussion include:

  • The Creative Team both behind the scenes and on screen
  • Bette Midler's start in bathhouses
  • Urban Legends in our hometowns
  • The Pumpkin House
  • Whether Steve can light the black flame candle or not
  • Music in movies and how it changes the scenes
  • Ronnie's mating call- sexy or scary?
  • Which sisters are we?

Which Sanderson Sister are you? Let us know by e-mailing us at happylifepod@gmail.com

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Stay happy, lovelies!

Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.

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Welcome!

Steve

Hello returning happies and new listeners. This is Steve Bennet-Martin,

Stephen

and this is Stephen Martin-Bennet. And welcome to a lifetime of happiness.

Steve

The podcast where we take you on our journey through some of the movies, TV shows, and other bits of pop culture that are helping to keep us happy while hopefully bring a smile to your face along the way.

Stephen

Another glorious smile. How disgusting sisters gathered round today, we complete a trio with Ronnie diamond and sacrifice a Virgin for a total youth. Welcome back, wholes.

Ronnie

Thank you, Steve. But I've mob. I've been, you know, I've always wanted to try it and now I think I'll have

Steve

all the touch while our spell bruise in the culture. And why don't we talk about the 1993 called classic.

Stephen

Yes, please. And what do we love about Hocus Pocus

Ronnie

holes? Oh, this movie, this movie came out, I think in the summer between our seventh and eighth grade

Stephen

year. They're in middle school and,

Steve

and

Ronnie

my friend. Aaron and Barbie and bridge. And I went to see that thing. I think a combination, like three times, we went to see that as that we were like in love with this movie. And I think it's that. I dunno, immediate traction to it. There aren't really that many family friendly for all age groups. I would say Halloween movies that have been out there. So when I think when Hocus Pocus really came along, you know, of course there's Halloween town or there's, you know, there's what was I that several of the other ones with the horror movies, but there's not one that's really just like this with also some music and some you know, the other piece just for everybody. And so when it came along, I think those who identified it early knew that it would be a massive success. Eventually, even though it may not

Stephen

have been at first. Exactly. It was just joyful to watch. And I loved every second of it. And it was probably one of the first movies where I was clearly rooting for the villains to win.

Steve

And that started a trend that goes on to this day.

Stephen

What about you, darling? What do you love about Hocus Pocus?

Steve

That as I've gotten older, like, especially starting when I was, when this came out. A little bit younger than you two were. And so, I mean, I remember the first time or two watching it and be like, what is a Virgin and why is it so bad to be one? I don't want to be a Virgin, whatever it

Stephen

is, mission accomplished.

Steve

And, and so, like, I remember like having questions because there were things that went over my head, but it was still family friendly enough where I could watch it. It was very similar to clue in that matter. And then as I got older and I understood it more, I was able to appreciate a lot more of the nuances in the jokes.

The Creative Team's Magic

Stephen

Absolutely before we get into our discussion on it. Give us a little background on the creative team behind it short. Well, it

Steve

is a 1993 American fantasy comedy film directed by Kenny Ortega and written by Neil Cuthbert and Mick. We

Stephen

know the name, Kenny Ortega from a lot of things. Why do we know him? Well, he certainly

Steve

gets his Disney dollars. He's behind high school musical, the Newsies and the descendants among other projects.

Stephen

Yup. I came to high school musical as a mid 20 something and absolutely loved it. There was something just endearing about that

Steve

series. Yes. I couldn't agree more.

Stephen

And it, Mick Garris brings a little bit of the horror experience having worked with Stephen King several times, including directing the movie sleepwalkers. And he is the creator of the Showtime series, masters of horror.

Steve

Yes. Meanwhile, Neil Cuthbert later wrote mystery men and the adventures of Pluto Nash before disappearing into IMDP oblivion. Never to be heard from again.

Stephen

Now the main thing everyone is excited about are three witches, Winnie Sarah and Mary played by Bettman blur Sarah Jessica Parker and Ronnie, I mean, Kathy Najimy respectively

Ronnie

now, you know, now, you know, very well the. Well, I'm not going to say that quite yet. I'll keep myself, well, the herb, as we go on in these three women have abs wonderful chemistry together and, you know, Ben Midler and Sarah, Jessica have done several other projects together. And maybe Kathy too. I didn't, I can't think of the one off the top of my head, but you know, they just have great chemistry together. Like first wives. I mean, that's one of my favorites. So I think anytime. This lot together, you're going to see a

Stephen

success. Absolutely bet. Midler is a gay icon. And she's known for, as Ronnie mentioned, first wives club or beaches with the iconic song, wind beneath my wings. Darling. When did you become, learn about bet Midler? This

Steve

movie? I was like, I learned about it. Oh, well you probably knew her, but from before this movie, Ronnie, I'm guessing since you two grew up together, but tell me a little bit more about Ben Midler and why is she a gay icon anyway?

Stephen

Yeah. Tell us about Bette Midler, Ron.

Ronnie

Well, you know, we used to perform in the baths of New York back in the seventies, but that's really, truly where she did get some of her star. She used to perform. She performed in the bath houses of all places. So

Stephen

I'll keep it clean. That's how she got the name, bath house, Betty,

Ronnie

that house, Betty. That's true. And I mean their shoe, she still performs to this day. No, I'm

Stephen

not her perform at your house is not the same as a bath house. I'm

Steve

sorry. Well, it can be on some nights from whatever. Why not spelled the Franklin.

Stephen

And then we have Ms. Sarah Jessica Parker, who is world renowned for Carrie Bradshaw in sex in the city. And Katherine and Jimmy is known for her roles in sister act one and two, as well as Veep and the voice of Peggy hill and king of the hill fun fact that Midler and Kathy Najimy would have worked. If Ben had originally signed on to do sister act like she was supposed to, but she ended up declining the role and that's how it went to whoopee. Oh,

Steve

okay.

Ronnie

Interesting. I didn't know that I didn't re I didn't know that. I mean, whoopee was fantastic, but I mean, nothing, both of these ones.

Steve

Yeah. I couldn't imagine anyone being what people won't be in that though. Right? The same way. I can't imagine anyone being Winnie other than bet Midler after watching this, even though she wasn't the one that your part was written for.

Stephen

Who was the part written for? Someone

Steve

else who I forget. I heard

Ronnie

it was written. I heard it was written for at the time old gem. It gets time origin sound, the old Shrew of a woman down south in Florida.

Stephen

Well, the, which has never would have woken it up. If it wasn't for max Dennison played by Omri Katz, his little sister, Danny played by Thora Birch and his crush and classmate. Alison played by Vanessa Shaw.

Steve

Yes. Cats later went on to play John Ross, Ewing the third and. And his role was originally offered to Leonardo DiCaprio who declined it to pursue what's eating Gilbert, grape, which

Stephen

was the right choice for the United DiCaprio.

Steve

Especially since this career path led Henri to be a hairdresser. Now in LA you said

Stephen

he is a famous hairdresser in Los Angeles, right? Yeah, so, wow. Indeed, because

Ronnie

my friends and I, you know, we weren't going into eighth grade that summer. We all, everyone had a crush on him. He was, I mean, he, you know, he was older than us then. Of course we were, we were what, 12, 13. And we were, oh, you know, that's when that was the gay.

Steve

Yes, it certainly was. Meanwhile this was Burch's one of her first roles, but her breakthrough role was in American beauty and is going to be in the Netflix, Tim Burton series Wednesday. I'm very excited

Stephen

about that with a grownup Wednesday.

Ronnie

As am I, because you know, she's done a few projects here and there at Brent and I watched a series recently where she was, she's a detective for Sanders. I forget what she was doing, but she hasn't done a lot of things over the last 30 years. I don't think, not that much. Maybe she took some time off for what? I'm not really sure. I just haven't seen that much. And I I'd always thought that she did. She did she performs such a dazzling. Moments in that movie and Hocus Pocus that she was truly a charming little child. You would've thought she could have gone on and done anything. So I'm happy to hear that she's returning to projects that are at least will be more popular.

Steve

Yeah. Yes. Meanwhile, Vanessa Shaw most recently played Kate in a 10 episode arc of Ray Doniphan, but we also know her from 30 days of night and the Hills have eyes 2006 remake.

Stephen

I liked both of those movies very much. I

Steve

did not like the Hills have eyes because. Like the, the deformed hillbillies, you're like my least favorite type of horror. They just freak me the fuck out,

Stephen

which means that at some point we'll need to cover wrong turn

Steve

for the podcast. I love wrong. Turn that there's something about that. I think it was cause it started with Eliza Dushku and she was my favorite

Stephen

and it takes place in West Virginia down in Greenbrier

Steve

county. And that's why you're our incest expert.

Bringing the Sanderson Sisters to Life

Stephen

No producer producer, David Kersner of child's play came up with the idea of one night for this movie when a black cat went by and he and his daughter were there sitting outside and he invented the tale of how a cat was once a boy who was changed into a feed line 300 years ago, by which.

Steve

Yes. And with that original idea, it did continue on. It started as a script written by Garrison 1984, titled Disney's Halloween house. And apparently it had a much darker and scarier tone where all the protagonists were 12 years old. However, the rewrites were all intended to make it less scary and more comedic, which I feel like they did a

Stephen

great job at yup. Together. They approached Steven Spielberg to work on the film, but since he saw Disney as a competitor at the time he declined because he was working on. Setting up Dreamworks.

Steve

Yes. Correct. So from 1984, through 1992, the film saw various stops and starts until Bette Midler express interest in the script and worked her magic. Who now claims it was the most fun I had up in my career up to that point.

Stephen

And, you would just think that the set had to be so much fun because. You see it on the screen? I agree. Filming began in October of 92. And while the film was set in Salem, Massachusetts, most of it was shot on a sound stage in Burbank, California except for their daytime scenes, which were shot in Salem and marble head, Massachusetts and production completed on February 10th, 1990.

Steve

Yes. Now, one of the strange thing you would find for a Halloween movie is that it was released on July 16th, 1993. The methodology behind that was they figured kids would be out of school for the summer. Some where kids would see it.

Stephen

Yeah. And I did go see it, but it's strange. You're putting up what could have been something that would've taken fall by storm. Up against summer tent pole

Steve

blockbusters. Yes. It ended up at the time losing Disney around$16.5 million while it was in theaters, whoever it certainly made up for it since then with annual airings on the Disney channel and freeform, which has previously was ABC family as part of their, you know, 30 nights of Halloween or whatever. As well as DVD sales, which spike every

Stephen

October. Yep. It's one of those classic things that I'm just like, I have to watch one of the Michael Myers movies every year. I can't make it through October without watching Hocus Pocus.

Ronnie

Yeah. I can't either. I'm I have to watch it. My sister loves it. I don't really know anyone who doesn't enjoy doing. I mean, maybe perhaps a Daymond scene. I mean, I dropped my brothers are always rushing to stay, but my sister definitely watch it. And. It's just a great movie. And I think, you know, sometimes when a movie is labeled, you know, that it's going to be a flop right then and there I'll dig in my heels and some sort of devil's advocate and cheerleader for the underdog. And just for that reason to learn, go and see it once your mom is up or whatever, because in cases like this, you truly find the golden nugget.

Stephen

Well, Ronnie is the exact reason why Schindler's list became such a big deal.

Ronnie

I've never seen that.

Stephen

Yeah, so it's horrible on

Ronnie

Gary. I'll get

300 Years Ago...

Stephen

terrible. 300 years ago, factory Binks awakes defined his sister, Emily running off with Sarah Sanderson to their home in the woods. And he follows them in hot pursuit. When he uses her magic book to prepare the spell as he sneaks up to the second floor, factory jumps down on spills, the potion, but get zapped by Winnie. It ends up. He is too like though, as some of the potion was entered into Emily and the witches drink Emily's life force and big. Young younger

Ronnie

twill be younger in the morning.

Stephen

His punishment is to live forever as a black cat, the town focus, sailing catch the witches shortly after and hang them. But not before they cast a spell that will return them when a Virgin lights a candle in their home. Yes.

Steve

And so what do you think of the opening of this movie? I think it's a

Ronnie

great in, in, in term into this movie, we, we get to go in to see how it all, I mean, I think they had to do it this way. Right? You have to set the stage and we have, we get to see insight into. You know, they did really good set there too. Like we get to see what life in Massachusetts in the 16 hundreds, what does it look like? And, you know, the patched houses and whatnot. And I thought it was time to ask, like, I really loved it and it lets us know if we, if they hadn't started up that way. I don't know how they would have been able to continue on with the story in the same manner, because they do type pieces together throughout even, even well. Even the vacuum cord, the tank later, which we'll discuss possibly is tied at some point. So, I mean, I thought it was great.

Stephen

Yeah. They do such a good job in that short amount of time show. How each of the witches

Steve

are. Yes. I mean, you can automatically tell that Winnie is the leader. She's slightly vain with her comments about her youthful appearances and striving for youth. And we can also see that she has the most powerful magic with her little lightening Zappy thing that she

Stephen

does. Mary is dumb. Childlike and she can smell

Steve

children and likes to make animal noises.

Stephen

Yes. That, yeah, if, if if Remy was one of the Sanderson sisters, he would be married. Sarah is our seductress who can lure children with her songs. And, and

Ronnie

man, she can lower a lot of man. Don't forget all those facts. Oh, well let me put down my mirror

Stephen

and now it's just so good that they capture them in such a short amount of time and you know exactly who these characters are going to be. And then it goes into a narration and a black cat still gods his Henderson home, every Halloween to keep the sisters from being resurrected.

Steve

Yes. So now it's present day and it ends up it's their teacher who is telling them this tale, warning, the students about this urban legend max, the new kid from California doesn't buy it, but that doesn't stop him from slipping as number to Alison, who is a true believer. And she slips this number back to him after school, after some flirting.

Stephen

Yeah. And you know, if I grew up in Salem, I would be a true believer as well, but I mean that, that's your history. And like you have the witch trials, which means that, you know, witches and you're the capital of Halloween for the United States.

Ronnie

But Darlene, do you also believe in flatter valley? How often? Over with my little paranoid

Stephen

shut up. So now so the Sanderson sisters are an urban legend for Salem or history for something. Now growing up where I did in West Virginia we have the urban legend of the moth man in point pleasant who people would see the moth man before giant tragic events of large death. And people started seeing him and it was right before a bridge collapsed on Christmas. And a lot of people died that Christmas Eve night, and people had said that they had seen them off man for weeks leading up to that.

Ronnie

Yeah. I mean, Steve, Beth's not very far really from where you and I grew up. Not very

Stephen

far at all. I mean, it's less than an hour from Spencer.

Ronnie

Yeah. I mean, it's not bad at all. I know, I, we have friends from school who have actually gone on, on little trips there to see, and some people still make these pilgrimages there today. And that film, the film that came out of why was it early on and 2002 or somewhere through that even brought more popularity to the area.

Stephen

So I'll see online and some of the horror groups where people are like, oh, I went to point pleasant to see them off, man. And there are moth man tours. You can take in point pleasant now.

Ronnie

Yeah, that's good. Anything to help the area's good tourism.

Stephen

Did you guys have any urban legends on long island?

Steve

I mean, of course the, the, you know, the people would tell the story of Amityville horror again and again, and again, being that it is from long island, but even even though. High school and the middle school kids. Especially in like in high school, I never had the experience of going because I always lived a very sheltered childhood, but I knew friends who would go to Kings park psychiatric center in Kings park, long island, which at one point held more than 9,000 patients in 150 buildings. And they did Purdue things like perform electric shock therapy, insulin shock therapy, and free front prefrontal lobe. Regularly in the psychiatric ward that then closed down. There was a series of tunnels underneath this 9,000 patient household with more than 150 buildings where you can go from building to building underground. And even though it was closed off, of course, for people that didn't stop kids in high school from breaking in with the whole idea of like you take anything from there to show that you were

Stephen

there. Yeah. That's super, super creepy. And reminds me of, we had a. Spencer state hospital, which was an asylum for the mentally ill. And at that point it was the largest continuous brick building in the United States. And there was an underground passage to get there and after it was shut down, but before it was torn down, people used to break in there and kind of go explore and friends of my parents. Yeah. Went in there and they were going through the underground tunnel and all of a sudden came upon a body and it turned out to be one of the former patients that. Living in the wild who had gotten into the tunnels and it was just sleeping there on a cold night, scared the shit out of them and the ladies just brand for their it.

Ronnie

Well, I have I have it on good accountant, mother Montney considered, and may have possibly had you committed there at one or two points in the past.

Stephen

We don't discuss, we don't discuss that anymore. It's HIPAA violations,

Ronnie

the fish Mapa I'm in France. I'm not under any old HIPPA Mosher. Got it. So, you know, that's interesting, you know, the diagnoses that you had really up until recently when you watch the crown and you see what the princesses at the time now currently queen Elizabeth and princess Margaret, their cousins were. It had been diagnosed with illnesses such as lunacy. It is idiocy and these were real diagnoses. And interestingly enough, as it ties back to Salem, the, which is originally in real life had been diagnosed by a doctor. They will William Greg's or someone like that. And he had he had diagnosed them as being Bewitched by a medical practitioner. So I mean, it really, I mean, I'm sure someone, at some point we'll probably be look back at this time and say the same thing. But it won't be as extreme as lunacy. It is the idiocy and witchcraft.

Stephen

You've been diagnosed with idiocy. Haven't. I was

Ronnie

diagnosed with Harrison on the way I was diagnosed. I was doc, I was charged in many places for the witch and the men with my feminine charms.

Tricks, Treats, and the Pumpkin House

Steve

All right, Sarah. Well, back in the movie on the way home J and Ernie a K ice stopped max in the cemetery to bully him and steal this. Leading him to pout to his parents when he gets home about how horrible it is here in Salem. It's there. I mean, Danny who jumps out of his closet to scare her. Yup.

Stephen

And Danny loves Halloween and she's trying to make the most out of living in Salem, the Halloween capital of the world. And you have to enjoy her childlike exuberance and. You know, moving across the country, losing all of your friends, you can either pal like max, or you can just embrace the change like Danny who dresses up

Steve

as a witch. Yup. After learning all about the Sanders and sisters in school meanwhile, max is then pressured into taking Danny trick or treating, even though he feels he's too old and cool. Only to run into Jane Ernie again, who take Max's. Well, Danny stands up to them and shows that she has more balls than her brother

Stephen

does. Yeah. Just for your information. He is a little leaguer. Yes. Which I it's like, I feel so embarrassed for him when she says that. And I know that she's trying to do the right thing and I was like, girl, you just made it so much

Steve

worse. Yeah. So they have a little spat, they do make up, but you get to do see that. You know, the typical sibling rivalry or sibling bickering that they really do truly love each other. Yes. And after they make up, they go to a big old fancy house, which ends up being Alison's

Stephen

yes. Out trick or treating. And when did you Rami stop trick or treating? I

Ronnie

think probably fifth grade may have been. I think because I, I remember in sixth grade, I my parents allowed me to have a Halloween party. And so most of my friends from sixth grade and school were there. So it had to have been then that, cause we, we wouldn't have gone that year, but you know, I'm the eldest of four in my family. So my younger brothers and my sister continued to go,

Stephen

yes, we can tell you're the eldest. Darling darling. When did you stop trick or treating

Steve

it's still trick or treat every year? Just in different ways.

Ronnie

I think that's illegal in most states now.

Steve

No, but I would, I would say that it was around middle school when I stopped trick or treating just so I can help Grammy. We hand out candy at her house in stead.

Stephen

Yeah, not me. I continued for years and years. Like some years we went trick or treating for canned goods. I had mentioned that we went to my friend Jessalyn, salvo cheese house and Reedy, and we would hand out candy and scare the kids there. Her parents still to this day decorate their house. So spectacularly for Halloween, like the amount of. Color and joy and lights that they put on. It's like Christmas. It's fantastic.

Steve

I remember even in my neighborhood growing up, there were people who turned like their backyard into like a haunted house. Where you would like when you go to trick or treat, they actually like go around to the back door and you get to go through like their own, like little maze or their own like jump scares and everything that they set up in their backyard. So some people's like a very seriously.

Stephen

And do you remember at some of like the, the school, Halloween parties and things like that, you would feel the eyeballs or the brains and stuff? And it was like cold spaghetti and peeled grapes.

Ronnie

All right. That was fun.

Stephen

Did you guys have favorite costumes drawing, growing up?

Steve

I don't remember most of mine. I know that. I think at one year I was a power ranger and I guess I'll just say that one. Cause it's one of the few ones I remember most of them. I blacked out.

Stephen

What about you, Ronnie? Did you have a favorite costume now? You know, I

Ronnie

did.

Stephen

I don't mean the words from college. I

Ronnie

didn't mean that I thought I was talking about it. When I, when it's red pencil, Rapunzel, Rapunzel, let down your long weave that I might climb and access.

Stephen

I also remember Ronnie's prom picture where the front of his hair looked like a vagina.

Ronnie

That was my new, that was my, was my legs from

Stephen

now. Ronnie, you're in your town right around you. You have a house that is famous across the nation for the number of jack-o-lanterns that they have. It is

Ronnie

fabulous Griff. Then it is called the pumpkin house. GRA Rick Griffin is the man who owns that house. I went to school with his daughters Alexis and Y and they're just one was a year or two older than me and the other was one year younger. And they use around, I think over 3000 pumpkins and they have help from the people in the towns, the volunteer, they have to have a lot of volunteers to help with that bit. It's a gorgeous home. The harm has always been just one of my favorites is beautiful. Absolutely stunning at any time of the year

Stephen

rally

Ronnie

home. Oh, it is. And you know, it's just a few doors down from where my high school was. So. Just absolutely stunning. And then of course it comes to life at this time of the year, which is what it's known for. As you said across the country. I mean, you can glow, all you have to do is type in the pumpkin house and everything comes up the pictures and it's really beautiful. It's a family friendly event and you, you go, you, then you walk around and there's foods. Foods and treats that we eat usually. I think they open it around the, when they have the autumn Fest, when that comes around, that's when it starts to open, it's open for quite a while. It's just, it's a great, it's a great thing to do at that time of the year. And I mean, what could be more cozy than welcoming an autumn like that and Halloween it's

Stephen

fantastic. I always appreciate that your mom will share pictures of each year on her Facebook page. And I know I could Google, but your mom posts it. So it's right there for me.

Ronnie

Oh, yeah, we are family. Our family is London the door. So if I'm getting a house and my mom is re then he, he's always been very active. As I said, you know, his daughters I went to school with his daughters and he's always been very active in the community and volunteering and helping. And so it's nice that it all comes together to when he wants to put on that show. And it's, it's really, it's a wonder to behold.

Stephen

So anyone that's listening that has never seen it, please Google the pumpkin house. You will be amazed at all the pictures from over the years. It's so beautiful. I was gonna

Steve

say, maybe we'll love you and have to turn this into an audio gram with pictures.

Stephen

We might even turn it to

Steve

an audio gram, which means you

Ronnie

use. I'm sure. I would love to have that prop unit and it's in Sarita Canova series named after the God is the grade and can know by the combination of abbreviation of Canova sorry Kentucky, Ohio, and Virginia. So very easy to find out, but you don't need any of that information. All you need to do is type in pumpkin house. It'll pop up

Stephen

well enough for that fiddle. Faddle back to the. Well,

It's All Just Hocus Pocus

Steve

yes. We, we meet Alison and it ends up that it is her house. They're throwing a Renaissance theme party and she shares that her mom used to work at the old standards in house, which is now a museum, Max asks her to bring him into any of their, to make a believer out of. They find the spell book of when a Fritz Sanderson, which is said to have been given to her by the devil himself and wrapped in human skin. They

Stephen

also find it the black flame candle, which says that an all full moon, it will raise the spirits of the dead when lit by a Virgin on Halloween.

Steve

Yes. And max lights, the black flame candle to prove that it's all a myth because it's all just a bunch of Hocus Pocus.

Stephen

And he first he's attacked by a black cat, which doesn't deter him because the second time around, he likes the black flame candle and the flame is actually black. Now you have important questions about the

Steve

yes I do. Because especially being a Disney movie from the early nineties, I think I found a loophole where we. Some in the Sanderson sisters together. Okay. Right here. I'm sitting right here. I was going to say Ronnie was, unfortunately was not, was born already, not a Virgin, but they're defining Virgin as the traditional heterosexual definition of a man having sex with a woman or vice versa as a gold star gay. Maybe I can light the candle and have it work well.

Stephen

So I put some times.

Ronnie

More like several star dust and weeping Willow.

Stephen

I put some thought into that. So my guess is that the witches are totally for paganism and a very broad spectrum of sexuality. So. My guess is if the curse had been written by the people of Salem, you being a gold star, gay would constitute being a Virgin. But if the curse was written by the witches, I'm not so

Steve

sure. Yes. And for those listeners who don't know a gold star gay is let's just say, I have never laid with a woman. That hasn't stuck. I was gonna say it hasn't stopped me from the thing with men, I think

Ronnie

are sitting across from a woman, rod.

Steve

Oh, trust me. He's all, man. Yeah, whore.

Ronnie

That was the attachment detached.

Stephen

So the lights go out and 90 special effects pop up all over the house. As the Sanderson sisters return home, Danny gets caught by the sisters. After Mary uses her. I smell a child seven, maybe eight and a half. You have that similar power, Ronnie, right? Smelling seven, maybe eight and a half.

Ronnie

Yeah. About what, what we've always called it. My sixth sense. And now that had I ever been wrong.

Stephen

Always been able to be like, you don't want any part of

Ronnie

that? I have my powers too. Don't, you know,

Stephen

there's a struggle between the three kids and the cat and the sisters and the cat versus the sisters. It gives them a chance to escape using the sprinkler system. Whereas max calls it the burning rain of death, and he grabs the spell book along the way, learning that cats can talk.

Steve

Yes. And funny story about that animatronic cat, because it actually was not a talking cat. It was a robot. Yes. That same robot went on to later be reused as St. Alum in Sabrina. The teenage wish with Melissa.

The Witches Run Amok!

Stephen

No wonder that cat didn't look familiar at all because I didn't watch that show missed out. I love that the sisters immediately believe that the burning rain of death is something real and they go and hide. And then when he's like, and she goes, yeah, Yeah, it's water and Mary's like, Hmm. Quite refreshing.

Steve

Yes. Banks leads them to the wall.

Stephen

So it is boats, water.

Steve

Yes. Now banks leads them to the graveyard where he shares that, which is can't step foot there because it's hallowed ground. He also tells the tale of Billy butcher sin when he's levered that cheated on her with Sarah being shares that he spent the last 300 years watching the house on Halloween. What do you think he was doing the rest of

Stephen

the year? My guess is that there are hundreds of mostly mortal talking cats running around Salem. Gotcha. I think that he was spreading his seed and hunting mice.

Steve

Ronnie, do you have any theories?

Ronnie

I think you had to spend some time learning all this new vocabulary that no one can understand. That's what I think he

Steve

had to do. I was gonna say, yeah, he definitely was connected to the railroad cause he did use a lot of modern slang when he was talking with the children. Yes.

Ronnie

He spoke English and the time before. Now all you have to do with scratch and Peck, and you can make a full paragraph.

Stephen

That's called Tik TOK. Ronnie, the witch's goal is to find the book and make a potion that will keep them alive. Otherwise they will perish at sunrise and none of us want that.

Steve

Yes. And while the witches can step foot on the hallowed ground, they do fly over at trying to reach. Summoning a zombie Billy to help them not accounting for how mad he'd be at them. I

Stephen

love Sarah Jessica Parker doing brave little Virgin, who with the county. I'll be my friend

Ronnie

to the,

Stephen

the children escaped via the sewers and they see how banks is truly a mortal after getting run over by the bus that Sarah is driving. And cause they evolve to find more children to use on the spell. And, you know, I had forgotten when I first saw it, that he's immortal too. Cause I was like, Oh, we got run over. And then all of a sudden he just reinflates.

Steve

Yes, he does. When he is a little upset about this turn of events though. And so what does Mary

Stephen

suggest let's form a calming circle. I am not being honest with myself. The interaction between the three of them is the true magic of the movie. I believe. I agree.

Steve

Totally, totally. Now the sisters clearly don't understand Halloween because even though children are all around them and when he sad or Mary sang, she knows she can smell children. She just can't see them. They find and make friends with a guy in a devil costume who is

Stephen

who famed director, Gary Marshall. And he invites

Steve

him in with his wife.

Stephen

It's actually his sister actress and fame director, penny Marshall, Gary Marshall is known for. The movie with Julia Roberts, where she's a prostitute. Pretty woman, pretty woman. Exactly. And penny Marshall penny Marshall did a league of their own and she was also Laverne and Laverne and Shirley.

Steve

Yes. Which is certainly have some fun in the house. You love it when Mary's watching TV, which they're running little baby baby

Stephen

in the car and the baby's screaming and Mary screaming. And it's just a good time. But penny Marshall runs them off. They finally, when they, first of course, figures out what the holiday is all about. Oh, how's he has become a night of frolic where children wear costumes and run a muck. I'm not come

Steve

on, come on, come on.

Stephen

Which is absolutely probably the most quoted thing from the movie, except for the song later on.

Steve

I can't hear someone say like they ran a muck without me. I'm not come on, come

They Put A Spell On Us

Stephen

on. The children find their parents at the Halloween party. We're winning. He performs a song it's spelled to make the adults dance until they're dead. And I love that she starts with, I put a spell on you and now your mine, you can't stop the things I do. I end, it's been 300 years right down to the day. Now the witches. And there's hell to pay. It's my favorite part of the movie. And there are times where I'll just watch the YouTube video of this on the song without watching the movie, just because a bet Midler is fantastic. She is a phenomenal voice.

Steve

It's an interesting, I mean, like to have with her, having such seen shops, having her be in a movie where she didn't get to sing.

Stephen

Well,

Ronnie

and so, yeah, that would have been a way that would have just been a ways. And, you know, you bring that up and I have to say sometimes, you know, especially maybe like this, that was considered a plot, like a flop, like we had said before, you know, the musical score, if you just the orchestral piece. Throughout the movie. I think they're actually beautiful. And sometimes, maybe it comes along that isn't there. You know, people forget that. And even in the award shows, you know, it's always like one of the last things to you know, be awarded the award for music, things like then people haven't stayed up or they haven't watched it, but it's sometimes the movie comes along and maybe it's not even a big hit and the music, the musical score, the, or Kestrel music behind it all is absolutely stunning. And I think if you go back and listen to just. It being that your goal should go back and listen to watch the movie again, listen for the music that's throughout. It's absolutely beautiful. And I think another movie like that, that comes to mind where I think the music score in steel Magnolias. It is absolutely beautiful music that's written and there aren't words. And I don't mean the matte, the garden of magic necessarily. I just, you know, The orchestra, the orchestra and the pieces that go throughout, because if you had a movie, if you had a movie that didn't have any music in the background at all, You probably turned the TV. Y'all seen a little wild. I mean, you know what I mean? I said,

Stephen

no, you're absolutely

Ronnie

right. Stimulates the brain. And even studies have found now that, you know, music, the brain reacts to it differently and in different ways, different places to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, and I think. Yeah. Take some time. Sometimes when you watch a film or something or something, maybe you haven't watched in a long time, you want to go back and watch it again. So you don't have to pay that closely or you don't have to pay that pay attention that closely to the comings and goings within the field. And take a moment to just think about the musical score. Oh

Stephen

yeah. And we just, the other night we're watching a horror movie and like the Halloween movie. I have the iconic opening theme written by John Carpenter, but even the music throughout horror movies adds to the tension. So scores are very important part of every movie.

Ronnie

Yeah. And I don't think they get enough credit for, for the magic that they bring to

Steve

life. Yeah. Yes. Meanwhile, the children, knowing that their parents are not going to help them come up with a plan where they go to a school, which I love, they call it prison for children, with the witches and con pursuit. They're able to use a boombox to trick the witches into a walk-in ceramics kill and burn them

Stephen

alive. Yup. The children assumed the battle was over and they bring Binks home. As there are new talking houses. Wouldn't it be great if Ruby Remy could

Steve

talk. Yes, I would love it. If Remy wasn't a mortal pat who could talk to us, he already likes sometimes. Like, it's just so expressive in the way that he looks at us. I feel like he's talking to us, but if he could actually use his words, I would love that. Yeah.

Ronnie

What'd you do, do you think it would be great if you could go up in flames and a furnace and then just all of a sudden come back to life and walk out, speaking French. Hello? I want my book. Boom.

Steve

No, not really. No, I'd rather

Stephen

skip it. I'd rather not burn alive.

Ronnie

Well, if you can come back for

Stephen

the knob, well, how, how often do you have to worry about burning alive in a ceramics kiln. Ronnie, is that a daily fear of.

Ronnie

It did render Ms. Speaking French, did it not?

Steve

Yes. And as Ronnie mentioned, the, the curve, which is cursive and mortality for the night does bring them back to life as the children fall asleep and they managed to the witches managed to capture Jane Ernie for the spell, with the intention to recreate the spell by memory. Unfortunately, when he's memory is just as good as minus

Stephen

unfortunately chunks. I don't think chances are thing Winnie. Yes. Why was I curse to research idiot sisters? Just lucky, I guess this is the end. I feel it. Mary, take me to the window. I wish to say goodbye. Goodbye. Cruel world. Buh-bye buh-bye buh-bye. Yes. Like again, the interaction is just so good.

Steve

Meanwhile, Danny is cuddling with banks, planning on keeping him forever. But Alison decides what the witch's did. They might as well be able to use the book for some good and look for a way to helpings, not realizing that because it's like glowing in their face. As they're reading through it, they don't see the glow. I don't know how they don't see the glow that's matching. Well, the glow is sending out a beacon of

Ronnie

light magic practice. You have to be a practitioner of the craft, if you wish to be able to fully understand it. True

Ronnie the Enchantress

Steve

story. Yes. While it does send out a little bit of light for, we need to track them down with their broom, their mop and their vacuum, because three brims were stolen by. Little girls pretending to be them for Halloween earlier. They're the left with making do with what they

Stephen

have. I poor Mary in that vacuum,

Steve

but I love how committed they are to the event where like, as even later on in the climax, as they're going around the graveyard, you can actually, every time she's on screen here, the little hum of the

Stephen

vacuum that though it's not plugged in, it's still powered. I do love. That's the

Ronnie

one Joe working pile,

Stephen

the witches take Danny and the book while Allison and max are protected by salt and on their way back, Sarah sings her enchanted song to get the children of Salem to flock to the Sanderson house, come little children. They go away.

Steve

That's how Ronnie finds his men's,

Stephen

you know, Ronnie's mating call a slightly different Ronnie, can you do your meeting? That, that was what worked in college. So whenever whenever finding Nemo. And they were like, oh, I speak quail. I always thought of you and your mating call.

Steve

Okay. All right. That's all right, Alex, Alison and max chase after them stopping them just before they slipped any of the potion by pretending the car's headlights are sunrise.

Stephen

And again, when he checked us again, you are always right winning. It's my curse. And you too.

Steve

Yes, but luckily the witches have enough potion for one dose, but rather than using it on the kids outside of their home, that are there and ready and willing leading them to be able to win and live happily ever after when he's thirst for vengeance against Danny, at that point, sends them after the children who were on route to the graveyard

Stephen

and this. Always makes me so mad. I'm just like sacrifice any of the children go after, go after ice or Ernie or any of the children outside. We want you to win. Just win. Yes. I mean, at least

Ronnie

at least Eisenhardt. I mean, get rid of them.

Stephen

I mean, they could have, they could have spent the rest of their lives hunting down, Danny, like just get one of the kids you'll live forever again. And then go hunt down, Danny. Like you need to be smart about this when they come on girl.

Steve

Yes. Unfortunately that's not what happens. And as children arrived to the graveyard, Billy who's been lumbering after then the entire movie finally captures max only the Steelers knife, which he uses to cut up in a stitch master. You can finally tell when. Joining the kids' side of the struggle as a good zombie. So you have an interesting fact.

Stephen

Yes. Doug Jones who is a great creature character actor, who is the main villain in one of my favorite episodes of Buffy the vampire Slayer, where he plays the gentlemen in hush hush, the silent episode. And so, you know, he cuts open his stitched mouth and moths flying. Doug Jones actually had moths in his mouth that he opened and let fly out. Like that's some commitment that is

Steve

definitely method acting for sure. Now my mouth feels dry

Stephen

during the struggle. Winnie almost gets Danny, but Binks stupid cat knocks the potion out of her hands and max drinks it to sacrifice himself. And then the kids and Billy are able to hold off Sarah and Mary, one of the things by holding onto the power vacuum cord. Yup. And max is able to hold winning off long enough for sunrise and then Winnie touches the hallowed ground and turns to stone. And then as the sun comes up, they explode one by one.

Steve

Yes. With the spell over, Billy goes back to sleep AK. He dies again. Yup. And bigs finally is able to die, but we do get to see him in ghost form telling Danny it's going to be okay before he reunites with his sister.

Stephen

And then in the credits, we see the parents leaving the party and the bullies are still trapped in the. But the book is still alive, hinting at a sequel. I rate this as the most tragic ending of any movie

Steve

ever, even worse than Schindler's list, babe.

Stephen

It like more than the thousands of people that died on the Titanic. Like you have the heroes of the movie, all dying, all three of the heroes of this movie.

Steve

Well, I'm not gonna, we're gonna need to revise it. What the definition of a hero is versus a protagonists.

Ronnie

Who's been watching the descendants too

Hopes and Plans for the Sequel

Stephen

loud. I, we do enjoy the descendants too. It's a good time. Now, speaking of sequels, yes,

Steve

like the original, there were many stops and starts to a sequel with talks starting up in 2014. Through even today one moment being a sequel than a remake, then back to being a sequel with different actors and actresses and creative teams behind it.

Stephen

The only good thing is that all three women were like, we'll come back. Just say when it was never a question, they all said yes.

Steve

Except when it was a remake and Baton Miller was like, that's stupid. Yeah. They

Stephen

were all quite upset when they were like, we're doing a remake and you're not included. And they were like, That's dumb. Yes.

Ronnie

Wait, so, so, so, so I said they would just play the, no,

Stephen

they were, they were going to have three new witches and it be a full-on musical, Hocus Pocus. They were going to remake the movie as a musical, allow the descendants or high school musical and have three different women playing the Sanderson sisters.

Ronnie

Well, Sarah Jessica Parker. And of course, Bette Midler can think so. Why would I not? I'm not sure if Kathy,

Steve

she

Stephen

absolutely can't sister act. She was in both

Steve

sister.

Ronnie

Of course she can. Of course. Yeah. I forgotten my manager, of course. So why would you have any that they would be the best songstresses to

Steve

have? So, and luckily the whole idea was nixed and in October, 2018, it became official that SQL was in development as a Disney plus exclusive film and all three, which has instantly expressed interest in. And they were accepted so to speak. Yes. But would

Ronnie

they be returning as like, I dunno, the teacher at the school who's opening up the tail or either know someone at the party, you know, kind of like how well, I mean,

Steve

or would they be

Stephen

returning? No. And in the sequel, the, someone has found a way to resurrect the witches. And so they're coming back as the Sanderson

Steve

sisters. Okay, but

Ronnie

we don't know if it's based off that sequel book that was written doing or

Steve

what we do not. As of right now, the screenplay is being written by Jen de Angelo who wrote for a work

Stephen

holics. And Fletcher is directing who we know from the proposal step up in 27 dresses. Yes. And she's,

Steve

Being produced by Adam Shankman. Who does the disenchanted movies and production started in summer of 2021 with the film sets release in fall of 2020. With Taylor Henderson from the animated film, your wig in the witch as one of the three new leads,

Stephen

because the only description says that three young women find a way to resurrect the Sanderson sisters. Now, as you mentioned that Ronnie there in 2018, there was also a book called Hocus Pocus and the all-new sequel. It was a novelization of the film and to SQL. In that SQL story, you have max and Alison's daughter, poppy who grew up skeptical of her parents' tails and sets out to the Sanderson house 28 years after the original to prove that there is nothing to this. We don't know if you know, Taylor Henderson that's going to be in it is

Steve

popping poppy. And they're using this script or using the book as basis for the script, or if they're just going in an entirely new direction. We don't know yet. Yeah. I,

Ronnie

I watch it all anyway. I didn't tear why, who does it, how they do it. And I watched it on, I haven't read the book. The, for various I've definitely. Well, I mean before Halloween, for sure. I, I, I knew that it was out there. I just hadn't had a chance to do is I want to read it, right.

Stephen

Yeah. And I I'm in the same mindset as you. I don't care what the plot is or how it works. I'm in. And I will watch it when it comes out. As long as it has my three girls.

Steve

Yes. And what are your hopes for the

Stephen

SQL? There needs to be another musical number. Honestly, they need to find another iconic song that they can perform. Because at this point, it's almost expected. Yeah.

Ronnie

I to expect it. And how would I add characters? 2, 3, 4, even seven could be good.

Stephen

I think you may be pushing it just slightly.

Steve

I know, but

Ronnie

I do. I do love that idea. I do love that idea. I

Stephen

hope so.

Steve

And I also hope that in the end they get to win this time.

Stephen

If they find a way to live just to live. Just one more day quoting. Ronnie's just one dish, just one dish.

Ronnie

Now the power that's in that judge. Wait, walk Dunford for us.

Stephen

Like I have zero running. I'm cutting you off.

Steve

We have to, if we want to say anything during this podcast

Stephen

now. I can't see any bad things about this movie. Like you know, there are some plot holes and blah, blah, blah. I just don't care. It's so much fun. I, I'm not applying logic to any of it. I just don't care

Steve

about it. Yeah, no, this is one that just holds a special place in people's hearts everywhere. Right? Agreed. You either have never watched it or you've watched it and you love it. I've never seen people who have like, yeah, I watched it once or twice and it just wasn't for me, either people have just avoided it or they love

Stephen

it. Yeah. I don't think I know anybody that doesn't like. And just in case somebody I know, and I really like doesn't like, it don't tell me that you don't. Yes.

Steve

And listeners, we'd love to hear your thoughts on Hocus Pocus and where it lands a spot in your heart. You can do that by emailing us directly@happylifepodatgmail.com. We recently had a listener directly email us about their thoughts on our Pokemon episode. And it was just so heartwarming. So we love our feedback. Yes,

Stephen

it is greatly appreciated. You can also reach us on all the socials, whether that is Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or Tik TOK at happy life pod.

Steve

And thank you very much, Ronnie, for returning again. It's always nice to have you on, even though we give you a hard time.

Ronnie

Thank you. I always say twist the bones and embed

Stephen

in the back.

Steve

Oh, I forgot to ask out of the three of us, which Sanderson sister, Ronnie. Do you think you are? And then we'll tell you who we think.

Ronnie

I don't like where this conversation is going one I out and I refuse to take part in the fact that anyone would ever think I was anything other than Sarah Jessica Parker. Oh, Mary,

Steve

Mary. Oh, wait. We can, we can flip it around now on Steven. Ronnie. Who, who do you think Steven would be out of the trio?

Ronnie

Oh, I thought he was the teacher at the school who opens with her monologue.

Steve

I

Stephen

get to be one of the sisters. You hold

Steve

whore. What system?

Ronnie

Since I'm being at, since I'm being nice, this Halloween season, I'll say that you may be, oh, I don't know that. Oh, I'm sorry. The witch's mother, is she an

Steve

option?

Ronnie

You can

Stephen

be bet Midler. So in college dominant Cassuto Ronnie and I used to refer to each other as the Sanderson sisters and Dominic was when. I was Sarah and Ronnie kicking and screaming about no, I refuse was married. Yes. And these days though, I would prefer to be Winifred.

Steve

I always agree that you were afraid. And what do you think I would be?

Stephen

Oh, you can be Sarah. I'll

Steve

be Sarah. I like that on the temptress of the three of

Stephen

us, even though Ronnie feels that he is still tempting and seductive singing.

Ronnie

Well, I have. I have the battle scars.

Steve

That's

Stephen

plastic surgery, scars.

Ronnie

That way. Those are hitting mostly episodic. I have I'll have it. Well now I'll have it. Well, now you're spending like, in those, in other movies too, what character would I be? What character would you be? Well, no, whenever. You're going to be todos droppings along the way of the yellow brick road. That's your

Stephen

well, we may not get to have Ronnie with us for a few weeks or a month because Ronnie is moving halfway around the world. Again, again, again, you are headed off to India and are you headed to Mumbai? Brian heading

Ronnie

to new Delhi, new Delhi,

Steve

but we can't wait to have you back after your trip so you could tell us all about it.

Stephen

Yes. And we may just have to start a whole new podcast on Ronnie's adventures in India. Yes.

Ronnie

I spin off what fat elephant down doing in there. I saw a donkey. Well, I can imagine

Stephen

now. Well sisters, and till next time, stay

Steve

happy.