A Lifetime of Happiness: Movies, TV, and Video Games

Beauty and the Beast (1991)

• Steve Bennet-Martin, Stephen Martin-Bennet, Ronnie Diamond • Season 1 • Episode 83

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The Steves welcome back Ronnie Diamond to discuss the Disney classic Beauty and the Beast. Topics discussed include:

  • White Lotus on HBO Max- Bingeworthy!
  • The original Beauty and the Beast fairy tale(s)
  • Life in Paris in the 1700s and the movies real life-inspirations
  • Belle's place as a Disney Princess and what makes her different from the rest.
  • Beast's behavior- is Stockholme Syndrome sexy now?
  • Gaston's villiany and Le Fou's queerness
  • The supporting cast and the reintroduction of Human Again into the main film.


Ending- Any music or audio clips were borrowed from the original source material.

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Steve:

Hello, turning happies and new listeners. This is Steve Bennett Martin, and

Stephen:

this is Steven Martin Bennett. And welcome to a lifetime of

Steve:

happiness. The podcast where we take you on our journey through some of the movies, TV shows, and other bits of pop culture that are helping to keep us happy while hopefully bring a smile to your face along the

Stephen:

way. And today we are going to say ballsy and ask you to please be a guest. As we discuss beauty on the burst with our best friend of the podcast, Renee diamond. Yes.

Ronnie:

Good day to everyone. Did you miss us? I missed you more than I could possibly say.

Steve:

The last time we spoke over Titanic what's been making you feel.

Ronnie:

Well, since we last spoke, I got to see my family and Kentucky when I went to Phoenix to visit our close and dear friend Monique and the babies and her husband, and then off to DC to visit some friends this trip. And of course I had to get a little bit of work done. You know, my face was basically feeling the peeling. It was as though I was death, becomes her all over again. And now I'm in Indiana. With visiting Brent's family. When I love it here, it's very nice. It's soothing, it's relaxing. And I'm spending my time reading.

Stephen:

Excellent. And Indiana is so nice this time of the year in the Midwest, because even though it's warm, it doesn't get like grossly hot and humid like

Steve:

it does here.

Ronnie:

Yeah. Well today seems to be the exception to the rule as it's already 95 and totally home, you know, I walk outside my hair to returns to ringlets,

Stephen:

but that was the perm.

Ronnie:

Well, you

Stephen:

see it. And funnily enough, it's already 91 here, but like whenever we got up this morning, it was already humid and gross. And, but it says that it feels like 104 here in Sarasota.

Ronnie:

Yeah.

Stephen:

That's why like snowbirds head north for the summer here. Yeah. Just because how gross it truly is during June, July and August. Yes.

Ronnie:

It seems completely rational to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve:

Well, I've been feeling a little bit under the weather, so I've been enjoying the AC at least. And we also got to build

Stephen:

some more Lego babe. We did. And since this is a Disney episode, we should highlight that we built Cinderella's castle from the magic kingdom in Orlando.

Ronnie:

Yeah. And you did a fantastic job at that. I was looking at the pictures just yesterday afternoon because you, you, you both have created so many just beautiful pieces out of that. I'm glad you're having fun with it. I'm glad that you know, that you did that. I was looking at that, that looks like the Chateaux, but now it is Cinderella's castle.

Steve:

It certainly is. And they had so many cute little nods in the backend, like where you could see inside the castle, like two different Disney movies, including beauty and the beast. And

Stephen:

they had the magic mirror from snow, white, the carpet from a Latin genie's lamp and so many different things. And it's really neat. And it gives you a little Tinkerbell mini figure to put on top. Like if you've ever been to the magic kingdom, whenever they do their fireworks at the end of the day, They have someone dressed as Tinkerbell, rigged up to a zip line at the top. And she ziplines from the top of the castle over into tomorrow land sprinkling fairy dust behind her. And it's very cool. Oh,

Ronnie:

my family loved it so much last year that they're going to get into this October. Apparently it's a hit,

Stephen:

they're picking October and I know that people have to go during the summer. Cause that's when they're off from school and vacation and things, Orlando in the summer is just so hot. Yes. It

Steve:

makes the heat and humidity. We're talking about seem

Stephen:

bearable. I know she

Ronnie:

breezes, right? Exactly. You don't get those breezes from our other clients. It's just sitting there in the

Stephen:

center. Yup. You winter landlocked, Florida in the summer is not the happiest place on earth. No, it's not.

Steve:

Do you want to know where else was? Not the happiest place? Hawaii when we

Stephen:

watched white Lotus. So there's this show on HBO running called a white Lotus and it stars Connie Britton Maury Murray Bartlett it Connie Britton, Marie Bartlett. Why am I forgetting Jennifer Coolidge? And it's this seven episode mini series dealing with this top of the line, exclusive resort in Hawaii and the privileged people that go to visit and the messed up lives of the guests and the people that work there. It's fantastic. Yes. Rich people are

Steve:

fucked up, right.

Ronnie:

Well, don't look at me. I'm his pores, little church miles over here, but I have to tell you, so I'm glad you brought that hat. Now you both know, I don't like to come in on the end of a show. I don't even, I have to be there for the opening credits, the pre I cannot miss anything by starting to read or watch it, but it just so happens. My husband had been watching this. Yeah. And he, it had just started like episode seven and I walked into the room and this was just the other day I walked into the room and I see Stiffler his mom. So of course, you know, I have to sit right down. And so I have seen the last episode, which normally I would never do first, but I will definitely be going back to see that the first six without

Stephen:

it's so good. And it's very well done. And it was already approved for a season. Two was approved for a season two. And one of the characters that was a stand up for me was. Alexandra Daddario, which she plays Rachel on there, but some people might've known her from the Percy Jackson. Oh yes.

Steve:

She was in the relationship with the biggest douche

Stephen:

nozzle. Oh yeah. That guy named Shane played by Jake Lacy. And there it's rare for me to watch a show and see a character and I hope you die. Like you haven't committed murder or anything. You're just such an awful person that the world would be better if you weren't in it. Yes, that

Steve:

is true. But yes, definitely worth the binge and it is on HBO and HBO. Max.

Ronnie:

Yeah. You know, we'd be remissed if we didn't mention it. At least the part, the last episode, I thought th the methods of filming without, without dialogue, absolutely stunning

Stephen:

the, the way that it was all done So one of the fascinating things about this is that it was filmed during the pandemic. And so the only people on this resort, cause they rented it out, were the cast and the crew and Marie Bartlett still lead, who plays the resort manager. Armand was saying that, you know, they would all have dinner together and then they'd go down to the beach. And like he and Jennifer Coolidge would have some drinks spoke up and then swim in the ocean as the sun was setting. And I'm like, how neat is it that, you know, On this resort for a month while you're filming. And you're really like, cause when you do a play or a movie or anything, you're going to bond with the cast, but this there's no way to go home. Your home is the resort that you're staying in. And so I just think that that must have been a really fascinating experience for all of them. And you can't tell that it was filmed during the pandemic. Like they did such a good job. The it's beautiful from the scenery and the sunsets and the sunrises that they show and running. Have you ever been to one?

Ronnie:

Yeah, we've done a few times. And you know, when you I think it's interesting when you say, you know, they're kind of stuck together. There is an actual thing called island fever. There's some people who can't stay in Hawaii for very long or on the island because you know, You feel as though you're trapped in a way I've never experienced that, but I have heard after some time people can experience that in something to be mindful of. Yeah.

Stephen:

I was going to say the, like, that makes sense with cabin fever, that so many people experience during the pandemic or, or you get during harsh winters and snow storms and things. So that makes sense that if you feel you're on those islands, you can't really drive and get anywhere. You'd have to fly that island fever makes sense to me.

Ronnie:

And it's

Stephen:

a long flight. It is a long flight. Whenever we were coming back the first time we went, it was when Roger rabbit was. And it was that long ago. And so I was the only one awake on the plane. And so the stewardess came by and she was like, can I get you anything? And I was like, can you show the movie again? And she goes, sure. I don't see any reason why not. And I was the only one up. And so they just showed Roger rabbit two times in a row for me.

Ronnie:

Well, you were in your mid fifties back then when that film came out. So I would think that you'd want to catnap a little bit. Fuck off you

Stephen:

evil twat. Yes. But let's get back to the topic at hand. And that is

Steve:

beauty and the beast, which was released in 1991, it was Disney's 30th animated feature film with a budget of$25 million. And did it slightly, well, it had a box office of$440.1 million.

Stephen:

Yeah. And this was what they referred to back then as Disney. Golden heyday of musicals. Yes, because you went from the little mermaid to beauty and the beast to lion king Aladdin, Pocahontas. Like it was just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And they were all huge worldwide hits. And this one holds a special place in a lot of people's hearts. And when you ask, when you ask people what their favorite is from back then, it's usually a little mermaid or beauty and the beast Ronnie, like for you, what, what, from those things, when we were growing up, which one's your favorite?

Ronnie:

Definitely beauty and the beast. And you're absolutely right. I, and I remember it was almost felt like this ladder of growth because you and I would have been in for 89, probably fourth grade or something like that. And then. You know, it was, it was little mermaid. It was beauty and the bees, and we have lion king of land. I mean, we had all of this music and it was just year after year. So this, this small you know, cluster of movies, if you will, I mean, they will always be special to me and, and, and the, you know, the pit or me, or the, the apex of that for me is beauty on the base without a doubt.

Steve:

Yes. And liked a lot of Disney movies at that time. It is based off of an original old timey fairy tale. That was a little bit darker than the subject matter. We get in this movie. It was based off of a 1740 book in France by villain Neuf

Stephen:

running. How do you pronounce that

Ronnie:

Villanova? And you always hear when I speak French, the little bit of a dip tongue on the end, because that's, that's how they speak French and Louise. You always hear a little bit about Villanova and just a little bit of a knob it's Villanova.

Stephen:

And would that have been abridged in 1756 by Boeing?

Ronnie:

Beaumont. Exactly.

Stephen:

Look at me. Yes.

Ronnie:

Look at you. You've already learned your third language all in one afternoon.

Stephen:

So Ronnie, you know, so much about history and those time periods. Tell us a little bit about the original. What do you know? So

Ronnie:

we have to, I think, first of all, open up the canopy here just a little bit, or create the canopy that the umbrella under, which all of this is falling and the enlightenment, Andrew, the age of enlightenment, really, we, we mark it as 17, 15 through 1789. And it's, you know, that's, this is really the precursor as to why monarchies later fail and republics that democracies would begin to grow. And information was beginning to, you know, people were sharing information through pamphlets and secrecy and things like that. But when villain Overbrook does. He wrote it a little bit differently. Whereas beauty would have several siblings. The father was a merchant. He except for Belle or beauty all of the other, the other children are completely spoiled and rotten. And so he, you know, he loses his treasure or his ships are lost at sea and they become poor. Well, the older sisters are mean to bow or beauty and they want, they make her do and, you know, do menial tasks or what were considered menial tasks for a family of that station at the time and

Stephen:

Rella type

Ronnie:

things. It really was. It really was. And so and you know, the brothers kind of represent that hunting of the beast or that guest on that, where, you know, that we're used to saying from 1991, but You know, beauty volunteer voluntarily goes and lives with the beast because the beast had taken care of her father. He had, you know, he had picked her rose from the garden and he explained that it was the one thing he could give his daughter because all of his other treasures had been lost. And so the beast understands that and he allows the father to return. And then he later, but he also lets him return with all kinds of treasures. So the, you know, the other children are, are happy. And then they're happy when the father has to say, the beauty has to go on and live with the beast and his Shacho.

Stephen:

Well, I'm sure you all get treasure and now you don't have to share it with the pretty nice sister. Yes.

Ronnie:

Mean what the beast, if, if, if beauty did not re you know, beauty to not go to the Chateau and live with the beast, the beast was going to kill the entire family. So they had, they only had a few options here.

Stephen:

Well, they brought it on themselves.

Ronnie:

Wow, because you'll just because you want some nice tapestry tapestries and the draperies

Stephen:

basically. I mean, one dish, one dish,

Ronnie:

if I could have just one of those dish.

Stephen:

Well, like during the, so you're talking about the age of enlightenment. When did the printing press come into play?

Ronnie:

Well, the printing press, I don't know the date exactly on this, but we know that the first, I think one of the first copies of the first primitive printing process was of the Gutenberg Bible. So it's already happened at this point. The printing press was already out and I'll have to look that one up, but with the Gutenberg Bible, I believe.

Stephen:

Yes. So the age of enlightenment, like knowledge is no longer held exclusively by the church or scholars. People are able to. Ready again, reading on their own and educating themselves in a fast. Right.

Ronnie:

And that monarchies knew that this was very dangerous. They knew that this, what this could possibly be leading to. I don't think they have, they put enough forethought into it to see the revolutions would be, you know, soon arriving from down the path. But they didn't know this, and there were some aristocrats, although many did not want the peasantry or the lower classes to learn to read. There were some who did, and for example, the, the mistress of Louis, the 15th, Madame de pompadour, she had vast libraries already. And this was around, this was in the 1750s. So w we, we know that like great libraries already existed. And when we watch any version or read any version of beauty and the beast we know we see that the castle or the Chateau is in the Baroque style, which was really before the age of enlightenment, you get the piece of life. Or at least I think the best evidence here is that when we see these impressive libraries that lets you know, that the results of this period of the age of enlightenment are already seeping in. And once that door opens, you cannot close that. It's like trying to put some sort of truth, but it's back in the

Stephen:

two. So Madame pompadour, is she who you based your hairstyle on

Ronnie:

that would be correct, because I've always said the hi the head of the coast or the higher the hair, the closer to God. He's the Jesus.

Stephen:

Yeah. Yes ma'am. So what were the expo expectations on women during this time period?

Ronnie:

So, I mean, unfortunately, you know, we don't even really begin to see until the 18 hundreds, I think, and really closer to the 1880s, 1890s, when we really start to see some of this women, especially in France at this time, the peasantry most of the people were still farmers. They were mostly illiterate. The women were homeless, considered passive citizens. They didn't have any rights at all. And their biggest concerns honestly, were feeding the family, having, you know, flour for making bread and that sort of thing, because again, most people, we still had served them at this time or, you know, it was ending or had been ending, but they were still hangers on it if you will. And the problem was is that. What led up to the French revolution in particular in 1789 or the start-up. It was that France had gone through several horrible winters and bad harvest and, you know, the women wanted bread for their children and that's really why they stormed the, you know, the palace of Versailles, they were hungry and that's, that's, that's just, that's just fact we have historical record and notes on this.

Stephen:

So then first of all, thank you so much for your knowledge and history of all of that inputting all of this. I

Ronnie:

just cracked open this here for, to cook and told you all about, see,

Steve:

I thought you were just referring back to your journals from that time.

Ronnie:

Well, we did have a great loss, you know, I basically had to run to Belgium with the, with the Juul though, my body and a few paintings in a

Stephen:

bag. You know, you're not Anastasia, correct.

Ronnie:

How do we know she didn't really live. I had to personally review the DNA test.

Stephen:

Well, as soon as you do, please come back with us now.

Ronnie:

Yes. Now I have to tell you something though. I mean, there is a city. So for, for the version of Villanova, Historians believe that he based the city, you know, when they're waking up in you only see the little village that it's based on. This was the village at the time, it was called LA Rochelle, and it's just north of Bordeaux. But before you get to non on the east coast so it's on the ocean. And this, because it had already been benefiting from the water trades and greater trades and more goods coming in and information sharing and that sort of thing. It had also become a city that was considered a little progressive because it was also more, it was Protestant and it wasn't a Catholic city, which in Catholic, France, that's, that's a huge thing at that time. And, and so we know that the enlightenment had already taken place there. So we think that when we see you know, the inventor or the merchant and the merchant in the original and the inventor and the 1991 animation films and that his daughter is educated and can read, that's not really. Out of the ordinary for this. If we look at it with a microscope, because if your father is an inventor, he might, you might, you know, he might want to have his daughter educated. And so this also we see all the hustle and bustle that's taking place in the villages that running around that could also be some representation of the trade and the, and the, you know, the movement of the comings and goings of the people.

Stephen:

Well, that's a perfect lead into this song.

Steve:

10

Ronnie:

I always just thought that pop up. Mrs. Potts comes out. It's against it's against. Thanks. Love. And I've been blessed. Well, I'm the poor and thank the Lord. I've heard the napkins. Firstly,

Stephen:

we will get there. Dear

Ronnie:

serenade. Everybody's best

Stephen:

I can. I appreciate that. So there are several things in the song. First of all, bill, isn't the nicest person when she immediately refers to them as little people. And, but they're also not nice to her either when they're saying that Bell's life is a pity and a sin, I get the pity. What's the sin part.

Ronnie:

It's probably that she's not already married and for young women, not, I think that because for a young women, not already being married now she was living at home still. So, you know, she has some cover there. Right. But I mean, for young women not to be married already, that that was, it looked odd to them. And why, why, why she was pretty, but why, why isn't she, why is she not already married? And that was a problem. People don't like change or they don't like things that, you know, are different from what they're used to taking the

Stephen:

system.

Ronnie:

Right. Right. And you know, that's why we see all that pressure from Gastone too. I think. And yet her father is supportive of her continual, her continued

Stephen:

learning, personally love her town. Like just seeing those people and you get to walk down the streets and you've got a baker with fresh bread and you've got the hat shop and you've got the clothing and you've got the little cafes and the bookstore. I don't see anything wrong with her. And, but I also get that you're also men.

Steve:

And also, I don't think they'd be too, too keen on,

Stephen:

Us queers. Well, yeah, but I would totally have lived. No,

Ronnie:

I don't approve of vulgar language on this pier telephone.

Stephen:

No bell wants more out of her life. And that is very typical for a Disney princess wanting more, except with this one, she doesn't want love. She just wants more. She wants more knowledge. She wants to travel. She's not discounting love. She doesn't always in love with guest on,

Steve:

and this has her, I want song, which we've talked about many times before, but it also was the song used as the movie's pitch. And they were concerned that the entire setup was a little too self-aware for its time. What do you think of that?

Ronnie:

Oh, I thought you were talking to my love over here. My heart.

Stephen:

No. So I don't know, like, it, it definitely is interesting because it's a song that everybody knows and enjoys. But I have issue with it looking back on it now that there's nothing wrong with her wanting more, but I also don't think she should be looking down on the existence of others who want a more simpler life. And then those people are looking at her saying, why do you want more than what we have? It's interesting that, you know, the song can go a lot deeper where you have two different sides looking at each other. You're wrong about what you're doing when in fact neither one is really wrong, why can't we all just

Ronnie:

get along? Well, you know, and that group that wants more, that wants more knowledge that wants to freedoms that wants to travel. This is what leads to the French revolution. And then 100 years later, we see it in czarist, Russia in 1917 with the rising of the Bolsheviks as they take over. And then we have basically almost the same thing, again, a hundred years later, but in a different country.

Stephen:

And that's why in the second half of today's episode, we'll be covering lame is no, I'm kidding. We're not

Ronnie:

why not? I don't want to think at all. Let me start right now.

Stephen:

Have you ever seen the YouTube parody of this bone zaur song called Hagar?

Ronnie:

Yes, because when I watched it, when you send it to me, I was surprised. I thought you all, I thought it was me in the first few measures. I always listened to how they recorded me singing this night. I went to my knowledge, I had not been recorded, but that's not, that's not necessarily a given anymore. So maybe I was singing it to them on the phone one night after I drunk dialed. And maybe you recorded it and made a little skid out of it. I thought, well, I thought this is fabulous

Stephen:

for any of our listeners that have not seen it. We'll, we'll Sarah page and it'll be on the show notes. Sounds

Ronnie:

like me. It has not, he has my

Stephen:

voice and I, and that may have been like, as soon as I heard it, I immediately. I love this song so much because, because of my boys,

Ronnie:

because of my boys. Oh, wow.

Stephen:

Oh, all the townspeople instead of, you know, sticking their head out and going, oh, boom short. Hey girl. Hey girl.

Steve:

Hey girl. Hey girl. Hey girl.

Stephen:

Yeah, there goes the baker with his tray. Like always it's the same bread every day girl.

Ronnie:

Now you understand why I thought it was me.

Stephen:

Yeah, girl. Now one of the other main characters in the show is the beast. Yes, he is our, you know, prince character, but he's also the dark hero and it all came to be because he was spoiled, selfish and unkind to a traveler that came to his door. He had. No concern for his fellow man or no love in his heart as the unconscious says. And by the time the movie starts, the curse has been going on for 10 years.

Steve:

Yes. And so one thing that I found interesting and rewatching it was that, you know, I always saw it as like the, you know, the, the lesson that they're trying to teach them is that it's, what's on the inside that counts, but he, even as insights, weren't that great as the movie began, he was very much, I mean, he kidnapped them and that was bad that thing's not okay in

Ronnie:

the, in the orig, in the original, by you know, then the node in the original, the Enchantress comes and appears as a you know, once, once him to sleep with her and he refuses. And so that's why she turns him into a beast. Oh, well,

Stephen:

that

Ronnie:

wouldn't happen. Yeah.

Stephen:

And this time. You know, you can see in the 10 years since then that he has learned nothing. If anything, he's become worse and is doing a whole raging at the world, poor me and nothing in his life. Not even the kindness of any of the people in his life, because his servants are all lovely people, but he still is the same, if not worse than when he was first cursed. Ooh, look at me that, yeah, rhymes. You're a

Steve:

poet and you didn't know it now. And one thing I love about beast design is that he's kind of an amalgam of a whole bunch of different answers. One of them that reminded you during the scene where he was trying to eat was

Stephen:

actually of a dog. And it was because whenever Remi eat sometimes, and then he'll look up at you like the scene where beast is eating the porridge. I was like, that looks like ramekins. Yes, I have you

Ronnie:

not taught him. Have you not taught him in your table?

Stephen:

Manners? No. And a fork and knife for when you come visit. Yes.

Ronnie:

Forget, don't forget the fish.

Stephen:

Yes. Well, and he's gotten quite good with the chopsticks whenever we take him out for sushi. Yes. Yeah.

Steve:

Yes. And now the different scrapped concept ideas that they had for designing the beasts were actually used as the castle gargoyles outside of the mansion.

Stephen:

And I love that. And at the end because most castles back then had gargoyles and it wasn't thought as an evil thing, gargles around. Protection. And it was interesting at the end when the curse is broken and the castle transforms all the gargles turn into angels. And I was like, I think during, I know you're doing it for a Disney visualization thing, but I still think during that time period, the castle would have head gargoyles.

Ronnie:

I think that's right in that, especially like if we look at the cathedrals Notredame or any of them that we'll see the guard goes, and those are to protect, those are to protect the church goers and the worshipers, you know, from any demonic presence. And but when I was thinking about, you know, that the shots and everything's done in the Baroque style for it to be a little ornate with maybe angels or with at least like flowers or cupids and things like that. And they have all of that, the gold inside, which is really called like arm of Lu or fifth filigree and things like that, that I can see that there, I could see that happening. I can see that they would transform back, maybe not so much angels, but cupids or you know, things of that nature that which really did come out, you know, the Baroque style. It was really, that's really just how it was in the Baroque style, right before the age of enlightenment.

Stephen:

Whenever I think of cherubs, I always think of.

Ronnie:

Well, your shit. I just had my cheeks done in DC.

Stephen:

The villain of the movie who sees himself as the prince of the movie is none other than As you see, I've got

Ronnie:

biceps to spare that's right.

Stephen:

And every last inch of me is covered with hair because back then waxing, wasn't a thing. Yes. He had

Steve:

a very hairy taint.

Stephen:

Now,

Ronnie:

are we going to talk about that part a little more? Yes. Go

Stephen:

for it. No. What guest on is. He's definitely fighting against the age of enlightenment because he doesn't believe that women should read. He doesn't believe that women should educate themselves. He believes that they should only be spitting out six or seven children massaging his feet and cooking him meals and cleaning his house. That's all I

Steve:

want from you, babe.

Ronnie:

Well, you know, sadly,

Stephen:

we're staying right here, Steve, to just cook him food and massage his feet.

Ronnie:

Well, let me just call Harris. I'll have him send it down. No, but you know, sadly, we're seeing that in real life, on this earth today, we get, God forbid, you turn on the news and look it up. You understand? But that's, you know, we're saying that not to make comparisons by any means, but you know, as a, as a lover, just as a side note, who's obsessed with the Handmaid's tale and you see that there are, there are, I don't want to use that word. It's too. It's too nice. There are entities on this planet that would prefer to have women, you know, basically living as a broodmare and completely illiterate. So

Stephen:

we're not that far from the old joking time in West Virginia that men wanted their women barefoot and pregnant, meaning barefoot in the winter, because then it's too cold for them to leave the house and pregnant because where are you going to go in the summertime when you're pregnant? Yeah. Like we're not that far removed.

Ronnie:

No, we're not. And if you know, the, the story is, you know, this is in the 17 hundreds is not that long ago. You know, this is just few years before our country, our country, the United States actually came to be, this is not that long ago at all. And we still see how this is happening around the world.

Stephen:

Yeah.

Steve:

Meanwhile was normal back in the time, Ronnie for marriage to involve a good hostage situation.

Ronnie:

Well, it involved a good dowery. Let me talk about the Dow or I mean, they would be trained. It's really, you know, you know, the father, not, not the father of bell in, in, in this story or even in the book or the film, but certainly for that time, when, when marriages were taking place, cows chickens, pigs, goats, I mean, animals were, were traded along with money and jewels and at almost every level. That did occur

Stephen:

nowadays gassed on would be considered toxic masculinity, but was his behavior somewhat normal at that time? For some men?

Ronnie:

I think, I unfortunately think that prior to the revolution. Absolutely. That's sad to say it with everyone like that. No, we're, you know, because that's how you're raised, right? If you have, if you're, and there's always dumped in some caring parent, at least somewhere along the way, otherwise our species and our cultures wouldn't have evolved to what it is today. There's always been one father out there who wanted his daughter to learn to read, even though maybe 10 others didn't and you know, there's always been one mother who was, who was affectionate and inner nurturing when maybe some others, weren't not because they didn't want to be because maybe they were working in their field, you know, you know so that, that they could eat. And unfortunately he, he's probably a good. He's probably a good portion represents probably a good portion. I'm sad to say no today, not today, but of

Stephen:

course back then, no, one of the best comedic things in the movie is Gaston's right-hand gay man, right? Darling. Yes. Well, the Fu yeah, I love

Ronnie:

while you're talking to me,

Steve:

this is doting little best friend assistant person. And I know that they made a big deal of it in the live action. One being Disney's first gay character. Right. And would you consider him gay or

Stephen:

homosexual? Absolutely, I would. I mean, I think it goes beyond hero worship to the point of he would rather be Belle in that instance. And I think LeFou would be happy massaging Gusto on his feet and making him dinner and all that. It's it is beyond hero worship. I think LeFou loves him. Yes. Well, I, I mean, he takes so much crap from him. Like he, guests Jones says you stay right there and you watch until they come back. So he stands out in the snow and the cold doesn't move. Like it's not good love, but I think he loves him. Yeah. That's not a fair. And,

Ronnie:

and it's, and it's not reciprocated. It's not reciprocated. I mean, I think to Gaston, he's basically just an underlying.

Steve:

Yes, I agree. So that, that makes it quite the duo of supporting villains.

Stephen:

Yeah. Yes. And the, everyone knows that in the castle, all of the servants have been in chanted and they are now household objects and there are four or five that kind of are the bigger parts of the show. Two of them being Lumiere and Cogsworth. And as you were singing earlier, we want everyone to be our guests with this,

Ronnie:

be a guest, be our guest, put our service to the test, tie your nut. Good in the round. don't believe me, ask the dishes.

Steve:

Yes, that did you know Ronnie and Stephen, that in the original script for this, it was sung to Maurice Belle's dad. When he first came to the castle and they were introducing themselves.

Stephen:

I don't think it would have worked as well. I, I think what they did for more. A warm chair by the fire and the dog like Ray. So we could rest his feet and things like that. I think that is more along the line of Maurice's character for bell. I think it needed this so that she's less afraid. She knows that this isn't a horrible place to be, that there are people. We'll treat her kindly that we'll be friends. I think it needed to be with bell.

Ronnie:

I get, I didn't know that they had thought about that or even possibly considered it, but I will say in the original and you know, in their original work from 1740, when, when the father comes to the Chateau, there is a table of food already prepared for him. And he's he is permitted to, to go ahead and, and feast because he needs it. He's, I mean, he's had a horrible journey and then, you know, to take comfort in that. And so that part's allowed, what was not allowed was for him to pluck the rose from the garden. That's what I graduated the beast in the original, so I can see, they may be right. Thought about that thought about that momentarily because of that. But I agree that would have been a mistake. She needs to know that other people, there are other characters in the castle and the Chateau who are kind to her. And also that they bond, they need to bond a little bit. Yeah.

Steve:

I mean, let me hear his entire thing was

Stephen:

wanting to live, laugh and love. And Cogsworth is the voice of reason, making sure that because Lumiere is providing the fun and everything, that there has to be an adult in the situation. Yes. And well, one of us had to be the cogs worth to your Lumiere all through college.

Ronnie:

No call ma'am.

Steve:

I can see a little bit of Cogsworth

Stephen:

in you, my love. And then that's why we had an ECOWAS Mrs. Pot. That's okay. She doesn't listen.

Steve:

The response is a great compliment though, with her voice here, even just when our re rewatch saying how much you love Angela

Stephen:

Lansbury, Angela Lansbury is the best though. I mean, so, you know, she's the original Mame from Broadway. She killed all of those people in murder. She wrote yeah, little known fact. She killed them, killed them all. That was it.

Ronnie:

And, and even a lesser known fact, if you go back and watch one of the, I think it might've been the original Dorian gray, she's that little blonde girl that sings the yellow bird song.

Stephen:

I'll have to look that up. Yeah,

Ronnie:

of course, you know, she was several years older than me back then. I mean, you know, we lost touch as the gears of Wayne are that we sometimes get together still.

Stephen:

I think that's really nice. Do you guys get together and you sing?

Ronnie:

We do. We compliment each other and I'll go. And then I had to cast that spell and say, all I want from you is

Stephen:

yes.

Steve:

Well, I bet you also sing this song together.

Stephen:

You were

Steve:

wrong. Incorrect.

Ronnie:

Rising in the east. I thought she said, somebody smells like you used.

Stephen:

It's still just

Ronnie:

Randy today. I'm so random.

Stephen:

So at the end of the movie, we all know that it goes into Celine Dion's version, which was a huge hit on the radio, but I really do love Angela and his various version. So much of the heart that it has meant. And then

Steve:

I also loved her kid chip through the entire movie. He was the one that, but like he was, I thought the, the cute little kid character, but he actually beat out a music box was originally written to the role of being like the young kid, like,

Stephen:

oh, I think it works really well for her children to all. Tea cups with her, the tea pot. Yes.

Steve:

I agree.

Ronnie:

You know, as we, as we talk about these characters, I want to talk about just very quickly, because I think this character is, is very important and even more, I think this character has always been important. I think the role was this character had a smaller role in the film, but in the new re-imagined that came a few years ago that the character of, you know, Madame, was it Madame God Jehovah. So basically the wardrobe, Joanne

Stephen:

Horelly's character in the animated movie.

Ronnie:

And in, in the Murray and then the new one Audra McDonald, who is a woman she's accomplished beyond compare. She's also an opera singer. And I want to state that because as a person who loves opera, and I know that the phases, we, we need that and her talent is beyond compare. I love her voice. So we actually, in the new one, they bring her in, you know, she in her, we get to hear her sing an opera. And I think that's, I think it's important because I think. Children, both you know, boys and girls of all different shapes, sizes and colors need to see that rep representation there. And I also think it's important because I think those little kids who might be interested in opera or even adults, really, I think they need to know that there there are avenues and access or accesses with them to start learning that, especially now that we're all connected. So I wanted to point that out there. I think it's very important. She's had six Tony awards, she played mother superior and the sound of music live she's had over five nominations, but you know, from the, in a double ACP image awards. So she's actually one, I'm one of probably her bigger fans. I adore her. And so I needed to put that out there. No,

Stephen:

I think it's a very important, yeah.

Steve:

And listeners, if you take my needs device and become an opera singer, when you win this podcast and Ronnie himself,

Stephen:

and I also don't know. If it weren't for Joanne Warley doing the wardrobe character in the cartoon, we would have gotten Audra McDonald because Joanne Warley is known for her soprano belt where she does that whole whew type of thing. And like whenever she's jumping off the stuff. And I think that that added the oppor, like, because that's just something Joanne Worley is known for from even laughing and things. And I think her adding in her usual thing created an operatic part of that character. Also, she had her

Steve:

originally like a much bigger part in a song that now if you watch the new like release version human, again, she has a bigger part right here.

Stephen:

I'll wear lipstick and Rouge and I won't be so.

Steve:

and that version of a song, if you were like watched it in the theaters or growing up, it was not there. It was not there. And then they brought it in for the Broadway play and then they did and went the platinum, like Ray release. They added it back into the movie and it

Stephen:

was for either the 20th or 25th anniversary release for the diamond vault collection. They put it back in and I'll admit, I had never heard it until we watched that version of it. Yeah. But

Steve:

if it's in really nicely and it's an abridged version, apparently the original human again, the reason why it was cut was it was like a 15 to 20 minute long song where like every single piece of cutlery got their own verse, basically like everyone and every piece of furniture got to sing about being human again. Yeah. Little too much for it. So rather than trimming it down, they cut it out altogether. But I liked the trimmed

Stephen:

down version two. It fits in really well. And it's a nice song that also moves the plot along through the season, through the seasons and just visually you get to see things happening and it makes it all fit together better. I do want to go back one second and Rhonda, you would be a good person to ask this too. So Mrs. Potts is kind of like the mother figure of the servants back in that time period. Would she have had any hand in raising the prints.

Ronnie:

I think, yes, the short and sweet answer that is yes, but only that, which the parents or the father in this case would have allowed. So she would have had influence. I mean, she she's playing the role because she's not the cook. She is playing the role moments. Like you know the nanny that, you know, the housekeeper, like she, you know, she runs the house. And so depending on how much you know, attention she was even allowed to give him I mean, after the mother dies, you know, and he's raised only by the cruel father, who's really what turns him into what he is. And so, and we knew that from the new version, but now, I mean, depending on how much he, even the father had even allowed the prince, you know, to have, because I feel that she always did what she could with what she was allowed to do.

Stephen:

Right. And she probably sitting there feeling like a failure. It's gotten to where it is and she wasn't able to stop it.

Ronnie:

Yeah. I mean, you can see that it's like the sadness unions, she's so attentive to chip and she's so attentive to all of them. So, you know, that, that certainly would have you know, leaked over to him as well. If she was permitted, because remember she's still, she's, she's not a family member. She, she is as a servant. And so she had to play with him in the role she had to play within the rules.

Stephen:

Yeah. Let's talk about the curse. And the curse happened because of his vanity pride and privilege his hubris. And as we've said, you know, in the 10 years, since then, he still hasn't learned anything from the lesson. Nothing about helping your fellow man and we've, you know, good thing there, isn't an Enchantress these days. Out there turning people, right. I'm standing

Ronnie:

right here.

Stephen:

You're just a ferry. You're not an Enchantress. Well, no, because you know, around the world, what we're seeing in Afghanistan or how we're seeing people treat each other during the pandemic, it's, it's good that we're not being judged on earth right now for our inability to help our fellow man.

Ronnie:

Yeah. Yeah. We better hope we ha we better hope that the, the Naval pilots that are flying around, seeing things that they didn't know, we really hope that if that's something flying around and observing us the way that they give us a little bit of latitude

Stephen:

now, and he has the rose. Yes. And

Steve:

the rows have brought an interesting question for me, or not question so much as concept, but okay. He he's fixated on the rose and like when the pedals fall, because he knows that that's when the curse ends, but you know, at the same time, if we had a rose that would let us know when we would die or something, wouldn't you be checking it obsessively and keeping it really safe.

Stephen:

I absolutely would be. But with the way that he's obsessive really checking on it, he's not doing anything. Like he knows how to fix the curse. He knows that, but he's not doing anything to do it. It's almost like he's resigned himself to his fate,

Ronnie:

which I think in a way it resembles what we might. I mean, I'm certainly not qualified to diagnose something like that, but it looks as though there's severe depression involved just on its face.

Stephen:

Yeah. You definitely see that. I mean, even at the end, whenever a guest on breaks into his personal chamber and he's sitting over there by the window. He's for Lorne. He sees guest on and he just doesn't even carry, dude. He's not fighting back. I was

Steve:

going to say in, in the, in the original the, the writing or the book, whatever, didn't he die of like a, basically a broken heart because she didn't come back in time. Or like when she said she would.

Ronnie:

Yes. But then I think it's senior. I think she, she does like, she kisses him or something and it does happen just

Steve:

in time. Yes. But I would say that almost dying of depression would be a good sign that you are depressed. I don't think we need a doctor's prescription. Fill

Ronnie:

that out. I just wanted to make it clear. I'm not qualified to diagnose that pathology.

Stephen:

I am. So now let's talk about the love story because Disney movies get a lot of crap these days for is it actually love? And you know, people are looking at the movies through different things, like little mermaid. She was giving up her entire life and her baby. For a man that she didn't even know. And, and this one, it's pretty much Stockholm syndrome because he's keeping her as a captive and she's falling in love with her captor. Now we know that that's not exactly what's happening because of this song,

Ronnie:

when who'd

Steve:

have thought we would have

Ronnie:

guessed it, come together on that road. So peculiar few days, something

Stephen:

there that wasn't there before. Yeah. So the something there, so we know that she's changing, he's changing, they're changing each other. And you know, he gives her the library and they have that thing outside where she shows him that even though he's a beast, he can be gentle. And the smallest creatures. We'll still come to him with the birds. And she teaches him how to laugh at himself with the snowball fight and the things that he had given up on his humanity. And she's showing him that, you know, they're still there and I love Disney movies, like 100%. Like I know that these days there are certain things that are problematic and blah, blah, blah. There's something

Steve:

problematic in anything from back in the day, when you look at it now with

Stephen:

today's exactly that, okay. I still love them. And I think this is fantastic and I totally buy their love story. Yeah. Especially when

Steve:

he let her go, knowing that she could be the one to save him from the curse to try and help save her father.

Stephen:

That's totally. On his part. I mean, that's growth right there. Yes.

Steve:

Meanwhile, bell fucks at all, all up by trying to prove her father. Wasn't crazy by using the mirror and leading tic Istan, going to

Stephen:

cue the beast, which coming to the kill, the beast song, anybody that has seen wicked the musical on Broadway with the whole cure of a, which song you can tell is totally inspired by the kill of a beast.

Ronnie:

Oh, yeah, of course. And you know, anything, anything different, you know, th the villagers will always come out with their pitchforks regardless of the decade, regardless of the century, in some form or manner, people, humans, for some reason, anything that's different new possibly not all humans, but a lot of us, a lot of us are, we have to say anything. We don't understand anything we is too. We might, since it's harmful, you know, it's, it's destroy or obliterate in one form or fashion. I mean, look, look, look, look at, look at the colonist into the new world. And in, in, you know, as they explored, I mean, you know, destroy, obliterate, get rid of it. Cause we don't understand that we're scared of it. We don't know it's lesser than whatever. And so the, here we go, we see it. We see it right here with the villagers and

Stephen:

their pitch for you're absolutely right. I mean, if you look back into the nineties with gay bash, And, you know, I mean, there's still gay bashing today, but I mean, it was a big thing back then. And we see with gas, stone song of the kill, the beast that he's lying. And it's a great way to show how lies and fear can inspire mobs. Like as we saw on January 6th or what we're seeing in the current situations with masks and vaccines, disinformation, and fear of the virus are causing people to act how they might not usually have act did, which I hope that to be the case and like, this is no different. He lies, plays on the fear of the unknown with the villagers and their first thought is, well, let's go kill it.

Ronnie:

Yeah, kill what you, don't no harm what you don't understand and, and move on. That ended up. I, I, that's a really strong word. I, you know, it's an thing, I don't know what it is exactly. We have to use the, you know, the, the, the other part of our brain, unless the bins things, you know, the instincts are part that fuck, you know, fight or flight. Yeah. I mean, because I don't know how I'm, I'm trying to surprise how our species is.

Steve:

Well, you guys, for a happy podcast, this is getting pretty dark. What was your friend? What was, what was your favorite

Stephen:

part of the movie? Well, let's get to the end of the thing that, you know, bell did finally make a choice that she loves him and her and she says it and she transforms him. And everyone transforms as we talked about the castle and everyone's human again, and they all live happily ever after. Exactly. And, but my favorite part. Of the movie. I don't know. There's something about BR guests that always is special to me. Yes.

Steve:

Meanwhile, I love something. They're just seeing their love story developed. I always liked that song, you know, more than I think it got gets credit for.

Stephen:

Right. And Ronnie, you were talking earlier about the 2017 live version with Audra McDonald and Hermione Granger. What do you think of the live action? Oh,

Ronnie:

I love it. I think they did such an incredible job. They didn't change too much. They kept it as much as they could to what they'd created in 1990 or what Disney had created in 1991. And I think had they had they veered off, had they gone in another direction? I think you'd, you'd see the villages with the pitchforks, but I mean, I think they did a fabulous job. They, they did bring in more representation of our population, you know, than what was in 1991. And, and they included that and they included what the realities of families and and you know, what it really looks like today. And I'm proud of that. I think that's good. So the changes that they did make were only really of that nature for the most part. I mean a little bit here and there, you know, like with my stroke Maestro Enza and things like that, the piano. So, I mean, I think that they did, they kept with the spirit of it. They truly did it extremely well. And I mean, not that they need my pride, but I'm proud of them for doing it the way they do

Stephen:

it. No, I completely agree. I was severely impressed with the live action version. And I, this may be sacrilegious to some people, but I think that the live action version of VR guest is better than the cartoon version. Like I know that, you know, animation versus CGI, but the CGI version, they pulled out all the stops and they really created that sense of wonder and that sense of magic and joy. And for me, I was going to really be judging the movie based on some of the. Big moments. And that was one of them. And I think they hit it out of him. I think

Ronnie:

so too. And I, you know, I, I, when we knew that it was coming out before any really big previews or anything, they just said, you know, beauty and the beast, you know, if we knew it was coming and we didn't know what it looked like, the previous hadn't really started to trickle out. I was, I asked, I don't know why they couldn't can do that. And really all that dishes lying around champagne and they marvelous completely mauled.

Stephen:

Yeah. I completely agree. And I, the actors that were all involved in it, it was just really impressive. What are your final thoughts on the 1991 animated movie?

Ronnie:

That if you have an out there, if you, if any of the listeners haven't had an opportunity to see it, or they need to go and listen to it, watch it. And even if you have, it's probably been awhile, I'll rewatch it, it's fun. And you know, what, if you don't have time for anything else, because you're so busy, these days go and just fast forward through the tooth till you get to the songs and they'll put you in a great mood. I think it's something that we will treasure forever. I think it's one of Disney's best pieces bar, none. And I mean, and there was a, you know, and I just, I just think it's going to always be a classic, I hope dance ticket and the Disney vault, but in case they do have my copies already at right at my thought,

Stephen:

I was going to say, thankfully, in the

Steve:

age of Disney, plus it seems like they've kind of skipped the idea of the volt as long as you're paying them monthly.

Stephen:

Yeah. That's a good thing as well. And what you just mentioned there, it would be interesting if they started releasing. DVDs or Blu-rays of music only like put together little mermaid beauty and the beast Pocahontas, and it's only the songs. So you're just getting to watch the music performances. I think there's money to be made there, go for it, Disney

Steve:

and then give us dividends.

Ronnie:

I do too. I think they're going to have to like really be careful with Pocahontas and with some of the other ones now, but it's just, these are different times than in the late eighties and early nineties. You're gonna have to be very careful with Pocahontas with like, you know, in that they haven't done that. Right. I'm correct. And they haven't reinvented that because, because to be so close to the original, you don't have to beat mirror the original, but it'll also have to beat. Sensitive and no, that's an excellent word. And it needs to be, and, and a few other ones too. I mean, they're going to have to, they're going to have to put some really put a lot of forethought into that. Yeah.

Stephen:

Agreed. Agreed. Well, darling, if somebody has enjoyed this and they want to interact with us more, how can they find us? Well,

Steve:

they can leave us a great review wherever you're listening. We would love you forever for that. But if you wanted to get involved with our conversation, we have a Facebook page, Instagram and Twitter at happy life pod,

Stephen:

or you can email us also happy life pod@gmail.com. Rami, thank you so much for joining us.

Ronnie:

Well, thank you both to you both been a treasure.

Stephen:

Well, yes. Goodness gracious and listeners until next time stay happy.